MHS831

There is improvement since the bye--but what bothers me about it is Bryce's reaction to going from terrible to well below average. Sure, the Panthers were winning, but Raleigh is right--he missed a lot of throws that would have blown the game open. Technically, he struggled to win a game against an equally-bad team whose QB was struggling more and will probably be benched. The celebration, the smiling, the basic euphoria he seemed to display is almost upsetting. He has cost the fanbase two seasons, draft picks, a top WR, etc. and he has made millions doing it, and he has a good game and clicks his heels. In fact, I go back to his benching and how upset he was about it. I worry that Bryce has no idea of how high the bar is and what we expect from a #1 draft pick. He seems entitled and spoiled. He has two levels--happy and smiling or pouting. I want to see fire. THAT is what bothers me about him. Can he improve? Maybe, but it must start between his ears. Right now, even his winning pisses me off a bit.

Understand that I am not suggesting that we have only one option or that Bryce young is the future---It seems people on discussions boards are all black or all white--most of this is gray, but they showed his (albeit a small sample) stats before and after the benching on TV--and there was improvement---and the defense was not on the field--at the time--so you make some statements that are nice talking points, but not based on fact. I realize you felt the need to pound your chest, but if we are going to discuss players, be truthful and not emotional, especially when you make statements to support your assumption. There is no doubt that Bryce has been releasing the ball sooner, throwing it downfield more, and going through his progressions with more confidence. While I realize a defense gives the QB more opportunities and better field position, all QBs have defenses. My attempt is not to praise or belittle, but to look for truths that will help us/me see the direction this club will go. If the experts thought he was not improving or that he was done, they would not play him the rest of the season as you suggest. There are 52 other players on this roster, and if you lose them and hurt their stats by proving a pointless point about your QB, you demonstrate that you do not know how a team operates. Could Bryce improve? It is possible--regardless of how certain you are now. Can he improve enough? I doubt it, but I have seen stranger things happen. Yes, your opinion is widely accepted, but there is no need to makes unsubstantiated statements or embellish his stats. In the past 2 games, he is showing statistical improvement--they showed the graph on TV. The after was not great, and the before was terrible.

why is that important? I hope Bryce continues to get better so we can focus on edge and WR in the draft.

Bryce. Canton is calling....

Spoken up.

Folks, the Giants is not a good place for a QB--and Jones is fighting demons. My point was about his skill set--and it was simply an "outside the box" thought to discuss. Unfortunately, the concept was too overwhelming for life's concrete operational thinkers. Maybe it was a bad idea, but the attempt to discuss a possibility was ambushed by some newbs entering their sixth year of puberty. Jones has a solid skill set--which was my point. He is mobile, tall, and he can throw the football. His problems seem to be mental.

But you have the benefit of hindsight--another fugn newb with omniscience...damn you, free McDonald's internet!!! This is the side effect!!!

Again, you are putting words in my mouth--and then you show us all how clever you are! Bravo! Just stop acting like a friggin' know it all. Focus on the players and not the opinions of others--we see newbs like you come and go--very tired of your type.

Both of them?

Amazing. You make a mistake when you present opinions as if you are all knowing and everyone else needs your condescending correction. So, OK. Thanks for the wisdom--now back to work--those fries don't pull themselves out of that oil.

When did I say top 3 picks? Talking about starters who were unsuccessful or sent packing from one team to find more success on another--- Goff? Carr? Geno Smith? Darnold? Baker? --heck, if you take those QBs alone (5) you are talking about over 15% of the league. But you are looking at performance and I am looking at skill set and fit. What you did not mention is the bust rate for the rookie qbs who are drafted. Why is that? Fit and, in my view, opportunity to develop. I know that it is easy to say, "I saw this on TV" or "but he has only been good for a short amount of time" well, this process is not a lifetime achievement award. Darnold was here for a half season--did he ever show the success he did here as he has in Minnesota? Nope. So what is the difference? FIT. My point? If Jones is a top 7 QB over the past 3 years when throwing from a clean pocket and here, we will have a top running back room (Hubbard and Brooks), a good young WR room, a good young developing TE, and a veteran, top 5 offensive line--those are the conditions that would make him throw from clean pockets. That is all I am saying--did I give him a gold jacket? I said it was risky. So is drafting a QB. I also mentioned other ways our team could improve. But you decide to put words in my mouth and then argue against those words. Brilliant.

When throwing from a clean pocket, he is the 7th ranked passer in the NFL over the past few seasons. You are seeing him in the worst case scenario. You will see him (Sunday) with Nabers and a few others, no real running game, No real TEs, and an improved but average OL that has been banged up. He is a big QB that can run and if given time, he can throw dimes. You have to have vision--and be willing to take a chance on a veteran---the trend in the NFL has been these unloved stocks have done well when put in the best situation for their skills--better than rookie QBs. I see why you say that--but the skill set is there.

Just an option that people aren't considering. To defend Jones, he has never really had a good situation, and you and I know that the situation is critically important for any QB. Jones had a good season--I do not look at it that way--I look at his skill set, size, and what he has demonstrated when the situation was good--and he has excelled in that situation, based on the data I reviewed. Goff was not good in LA and they wanted to get rid of him---Detroit got a ton for Stafford and may have the better QB. Darnold struggled in two situations and sat in SF, but he has weapons and a good defense in Minnesota, and he is doing well. Mayfield found a home in Tampa that is matched with his style of play. Here, a player like Jones who has never had the four ingredients a successful QB needs: OL, WRs, Running game, and TEs. He has had 2 of 4 most of the time. Drafting Ward or Sanders is risky because you don't address Edge unless you spend $30m in free agency--and who wants to come to Carolina? Jones needs new scenery and here, he has the 4 ingredients--and if the defense is rebuilt--he will be good. You pay him the same you would an elite Edge in free agency, and you can turn the page in 2 years if that is the decision. Here, Jones has a top 10 OL, a stout running game, solid young WRs (that will need a veteran QB), and a developing TE. In addition, this move back in the draft allows you to draft a QB who is not pressured to succeed right away--like so many busts have. Allar, for example, is 20--in two years under Jones, he would be 23 and developed. Just a thought. Is there any answer that is right? Nope. I just see in Jones what others have seen in skilled QBs in bad situations. Trade back, get your edge, sign Jones, draft a WR and QB on day 2. To me, it is less risky than rolling the dice again on an early round QB who must sink or swim from day 1. But, yeah, there is a chance this does not work. I think it would be the smart move.

Thanks--I do to (love thinking that's outside the box). I think the best QB from this draft will not be Sanders or Ward, for some reason--but Sanders will be a better pro than Ward, in my opinion. In 10 years, we will look back and say, "Hmmm. Who knew Rourke would be the steal of that draft?" (example). Nussmieir and Allar are on my radar now-- If you need an edge on defense, where are you going to find a starter except in round 1? (Or overpay for a veteran). Instead of putting all eggs in the Jones basket, and stats prove that he can play in perfect conditions, you basically bring in an experienced, perhaps transitional qb, and you draft a QB later and develop him. So you are adding 2 QBs to the QB problem and not going "all in" on a guy who may simply be a system qb in college and can't transition. An early first rounder is usually forced to start so they do not get a year or two in the QB room watching a veteran work and improve. If Ward becomes the next Patrick Mahommes, you look stupid, but in this scenario, (and it is not perfect--still a risk) you fill the edge need, draft a QB, sign a veteran QB, and allow Bryce to compete. Three options and you get the edge and a WR in the draft. I will be watching Jones vs. Panthers (32nd in the NFL in QB pressures) closely Sun AM. If he plays well vs. us, it validates what I am saying and he could be beaten down for reasons beyond his doing. We shall see (That is why I am mentioning this stuff this week_). Take care

I have been living on the edge this week--and I put out on another thread or created one--maybe in always current "2023 Draft" board/room, that we should consider trading back even if Cam Ward is there. I am not sold on his entire body of work--and wonder if he is a system QB (I hate saying that) or if he is finally putting it all together. Here is what I know---(repeating myself): The Giants are down on Daniel Jones after giving him a huge deal after the 2022 season, one where he had a pretty good supporting cast. In 2023 he had a horrible OL and struggled. His weapons? Not good. In 2024, he has NO running game behind him, there have been a few key injuries to the OL...For the past 2 years, this pocket passer has been pressured a lot--most in the league (according to one article--I read several and did not save links---this is from memory). THIS SHOCKED ME: Throughout his career, he is ranked #7 when throwing from a clean pocket. He is 6' 5" and 230--I imagine about 8 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier than Bryce and he is probably more mobile that Bryce. We have a good OL, and could probably upgrade at C and maybe T. With Canales teaching the 2.4 seconds rule, he could be better in a different setting. The Giants are talking about benching him. Daboll is desperate and on the hottest of hot seats---they can't really cut him now--cap hell. However, If we acquired him, we'd only owe his remaining salary, not his signing bonus, and that figure would be about $60m for 2 seasons. The Giants would love getting out of that and might even absorb some costs. Jones gets a strong running game, awesome OL, and if we draft a WR early, XL, Thielen, Coker, Moore, and a stud rookie would be pretty impressive. If Sanders (TE) keeps developing and Tremble can stay healthy, TE is better than it has been for a while. I think Jones, at age 29, would be ready to step in and make things happen--a Darnold/Mayfield story. Jones contract is good through 2026, so that gives you time to evaluate him. In the draft, trade down, add a second rounder. Draft an edge, then a WR with one of the round 2 picks and then get a developmental QB (even if you have to trade back up) like Nussmieir, Rourke, Allar, or someone similar to Jones to develop for two seasons. In round three, get a DT (Morgan has drafted well later in the draft, so we could add another ILB. On defense, we get Wonnum back and Brown returns. Wallace is a year older, and we added a DT. Horn and Jackson are solid CBs, Smith-Wade??? not sure. So we are not far off. If we draft Ward, it is another high risk high reward situation. It does not give us that added second rounder or the ability to draft that edge we need so badly. Jones' stock is down, but if you do your homework, you understand that he needs protection and weapons, perhaps more than most QBs. This year, defenses are not worried about Tracy and the other RB who are each averaging under 50 yards per game. Saquan Barkely is gone. Here, he has a stocked garage at RB, developing weapons at WR and TE, and a good OL. When that happened in the past (albeit on a lesser scale) Jones was the #7 ranked passer from the pocket--and he has mobility and speed at 6'5". He is currently 28. Just sayin. Now if someone responds by saying "Jones sucks!" It means you did not read this. Jones comes back to his hometown. Its a damn Disney movie!