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where's Ricky? FSU

DaCityKats

By DaCityKats,
in Carolina Panthers

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gettlemanjack Newbie

gettlemanjack

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other than Kelvin, we are also probably taking a good look at 5-11/170 FSU WR Kenny Shaw as an UDFA or late R pick. He had 1,204 all-purpose yards (including 933 yards receiving) for the Seminoles last season and was All-ACC 3rd team by coaches and All-ACC honorable mention by media. The name of his high school team? The Panthers

"Kenny Shaw drew the attention of scouts (at FSU's pro day) after shining during the passing drills."

"what Shaw lacks on the (size) scale is countered by his quick feet, precise route running and reliable hands. He does not do well against press coverage, but his aforementioned quickness makes it tougher for defensive backs to jam him off the line. Shaw gets in and out of his breaks well, and if he gets off the line untouched he's smoother in his routes than any other receiver on the roster.... showed some real toughness (and heart) after he was knocked out cold in the end zone by a helmet-to-helmet-to-helmet shot from two defenders against Oklahoma (in 2012) and subsequently returned the following week to snag a touchdown pass in a losing effort at Clemson... It is easy at times to underrate him...but Shaw is a very good receiver."

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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My concern with Benjamin is that it's hard to point to an NFL WR with his make up.  Calvin Johnson is the closest in terms of physical stature, but Megatron is much, much faster.  Megatron is a freak, plain and simple.  The guys Benjamin most closely compares to in terms of stature and speed all play TE.  He compares very favorably to most of the elite NFL TEs in this regard, but he plays WR.

 

That definitely concerns me.  But, to those of you who would say there were no good direct comparisons to Cam Newton when he was entering the NFL, I'd say that you're 100% correct on that.

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gettlemanjack Newbie

gettlemanjack

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Retired NFL defensive end Stephen White looks at the tape to see if Benjamin can be more than just a big man. White played for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 1996-2001 and the New York Jets in 2002

"The gold standard for the big/tall/fast wide receiver is, of course, Lions wide receiver Calvin "Megatron" Johnson. Johnson is 6'5, almost 240 pounds with very good speed and very good hands. That is a nightmare combination for most NFL cornerbacks. Well, what about a guy who is also 6'5, 240 pounds with good top-end speed and pretty good hands?

That's what you get with Kelvin Benjamin.

Where he differs the most from Megatron...is that Benjamin is slow at the beginning of the route, but once he got a head of steam, he ran by cornerbacks on a regular basis.... once he gets rolling, he eats up ground like Rick Ross on some lemon pepper wings.

...

Benjamin was so physical against cornerbacks pressing him at the line of scrimmage, I don't think getting separation on shorter routes will be a problem for him either.

...

if he is thrown jump balls in the NFL, he is still going to be able to make the catch at a higher point in the air than 99.9 percent of the defensive backs he will face.

...

Kelvin Benjamin has pretty good hands. We've seen some tall, fast wide receivers who can jump out of the gym come into the league in recent years, players who couldn't catch a cold naked at the North Pole.

Darrius Heyward-Bey and Stephen Hill are two prominent examples of this phenomenon. Benjamin is not that.

...

(in regards to blocking) Benjamin wasn't perfect; he missed a few blocks here and there. However, he mostly blocked at a high level. Every once in a while he flat knocked the hell out of people. I swoon a little bit when I see a play like the crackback block Benjamin made on an NC State linebacker to help spring his running back for a touchdown. The fact that he stood over the guy after the play also got me hyped.

...

So many wide receivers these days are soft. They won't hit anybody and hate being hit. Benjamin can be a throwback wide receiver who intimidates defensive backs with his ability to go up and catch the ball and with his physicality in the run game ... Little cornerbacks don't like that much from my experience.

...

(during the season) I did not think Benjamin was much of route runner, but he actually looked pretty damn good running routes on a second (and third, and fourth) viewing. There were a couple of times where he slipped coming out of his breaks, but other than that, he was usually smooth in and out of his cuts and executed them quickly. ... He also ran just about every kind of route there is at least once in the course of those five games.

Benjamin also made some hay out of the slot, which is something I didn't see Evans do. I am not saying Evans can't do it, but in the games I watched Evans never lined up in the slot. I know Benjamin has done it and did it pretty well.

...

There are a handful of teams that are almost always picking in the second half of the first round the last decade, teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Saints ... In addition to those three, you have ascending teams like the Panthers and the 49ers who are also picking in the second half of the first round this year with a need at wide receiver.... Think back to when Alshon Jeffery, who had some of the same red flags, fell all the way to the second round to the Bears in 2012. I can definitely see Benjamin having the same kind of impact for one of those (five) teams.

...

Looks like a steal...One month from now Kelvin Benjamin will hear his name called at the NFL Draft , maybe at the end of the first round, maybe even later. Ten years from now we will all look back and agree that he should have gone higher. I am expecting big things from Benjamin at the next level."

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/4/15/5593804/2014-nfl-draft-kelvin-benjamin-breakdown-hands-speed

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gettlemanjack Newbie

gettlemanjack

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in White's article on Kelvin linked to above, he wrote this about the possibility of Kelvin to the 49ers at 30:

"Really, who wants to game plan against Frank Gore in the backfield, Vernon Davis and Anquan Boldin in the middle of the field, and Michael Crabtree and Kelvin Benjamin out wide?!

NOOOOOOOOBODY!"

in Walter Football's newest mock that came out today, he has Kelvin going #30 to 49ers saying "San Francisco needs to add a deep threat at wideout, and Kelvin Benjamin certainly fits that. The 49ers like Benjamin"

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gettlemanjack Newbie

gettlemanjack

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Vinny Cerrato, former Washington Redskins GM from 2002-2009 under Dan Snyder:

On the Wide Receiver Crop: "If Odell Beckham Jr. was there, I like him a lot, but I don’t think he’ll be there. The Panthers could be picking the 6th or 7th wide receiver. Brandin Cooks, if he was there, I like him. Benjamin scares me. Apparently he has off the field issues and a low score, that scares me.

...

If a guy gets a low (Wunderlic) score, it raises a red flag, it doesn’t eliminate him, but it makes me want to send my QB coach and offensive coordinator to spend time with them."

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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Vinny Cerrato, former Washington Redskins GM from 2002-2009 under Dan Snyder:

On the Wide Receiver Crop: "If Odell Beckham Jr. was there, I like him a lot, but I don’t think he’ll be there. The Panthers could be picking the 6th or 7th wide receiver. Brandin Cooks, if he was there, I like him. Benjamin scares me. Apparently he has off the field issues and a low score, that scares me.

...

If a guy gets a low (Wunderlic) score, it raises a red flag, it doesn’t eliminate him, but it makes me want to send my QB coach and offensive coordinator to spend time with them."

 

Why would he want to send the QB coach to spend time with a WR prospect?  Was that quote still directed toward KB?

 

Just did a little wikipedia research on Cerrato's WR selections.  Hurney would laugh at them.

 

2002:  Cliff Russell, 3rd round

           Career stats:  5 catches for 45 yards and 0 TDs

 

2003:  Taylor Jacobs, 2nd round

           Career stats:  37 catches for 384 yards and 2 TDs

 

2008:  Devin Thomas, 2nd round

           Career stats:  43 catches for 482 yards and 3 TDs

           Malcolm Kelly, 2nd round

           Career stats:  28 catches for 365 yards and 0 TDS

 

That is FOUR 2nd or 3rd round WR picks who combined for a grand total of 113 catches for 1276 yards and 5 TDs in their CAREERS.  That isn't what they produced for the Redskins, those figures would be considerably less.  Steve Smith had better seasons than those guys' combined careers.  It is VERY fair to say that this guy doesn't know jack poo about evaluating NFL WR prospects.

 

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gettlemanjack Newbie

gettlemanjack

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NFL Media analyst Charles Davis:

"Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin are, in a lot of ways, the same guy," Davis told 93.7 The Fan.

"But, I do know that a number of scouts and personnel people like Evans a lot better really for this reason – he doesn’t weigh over 240 pounds, 240 pound receivers scare the heck out of NFL personnel people because when you do your studies, and you go back and look, name the 240 pound receiver that was – forget All-Pro- that was productive over a period of time. They just really haven’t. He’s not out there."

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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NFL Media analyst Charles Davis:

"Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin are, in a lot of ways, the same guy," Davis told 93.7 The Fan.

"But, I do know that a number of scouts and personnel people like Evans a lot better really for this reason – he doesn’t weigh over 240 pounds, 240 pound receivers scare the heck out of NFL personnel people because when you do your studies, and you go back and look, name the 240 pound receiver that was – forget All-Pro- that was productive over a period of time. They just really haven’t. He’s not out there."

 

Yep, that's my exact concern.  Calvin Johnson is essentially the same size.  He's listed at 236, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he's 240+.  But again, he's a freak.

 

When you look at KB's measurements and times, they scream elite NFL TE.  They don't scream WR.

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