Number One Receiver vs Two Tight End Sets

[Woodie]

Gettleman already told you we are going BPA which accounts for needs but doesn't focus on it.  The only way to get better is draft the best guy regardless of position.  Drafting Short wasn't a need after we went for Star in the first while CB was a big need.  So he has already shown that need won't be the major factor and I don't know that we couldn't or shouldn't improve on those two who haven't shown much last year. Besides if we drafted for biggest need we would likely double down at tackle in the first 2 rounds.

 

But what is BPA?  That's not something Gettleman, nor anyone else will or can tell you.  That's because there is no definitive definition of BPA...even within a team.  I think many fans think of it as an individual, but it almost never is, BPA is typically more a grouping of players that are all rated similarly.  And when a team has a group of players rated about the same, they will look to a position of need when making their decision.  So when Gettleman says he will go BPA, he's really not telling you anything. 

 

And Short was no more BPA than many other players we could have taken at that spot.  He absolutely was a need.  We were almost completely barren at DT, and had a huge need for two of them heading into the draft.  We only had an aging Edwards at the 3 tech, and we needed to find his replacement as badly as any other need.  It was all about choices..."do we want to go DT again and worry about WR next year, or do we want to take a WR and get our 3 tech next year?" type of choices.

 

BPA is really one of those ambiguous terms that can mean anything and commits nothing.

[Woodie]

 

 

Who has the list? THE MASTER LIST? The one with all the draft picks listed in order by adding, subtracting, multiply, divide, analyze, and basically digest every piece of information on every player? I mean? Is it really that hard to take the 28th best player? One way or another, shouldn't that guy be a pretty good player? I can't wait to see/meet him.

How do you narrow it all down? I want one of those top 4WR. One of those top 4LT. Or even one of those top CB. So when your pick comes. And you have 4 guys still on your lists. Oops. "Hey guys, maybe next year we try something different? Mkay?"

Or, do we make our own, first-worst, draft list. Then we know where we are going, and can put a plan in place. Then the guy you wanted goes elsewhere. Oops. "Hey guys, let's cross that one off he list. Mkay?

Now, I ain't no Nosetradomus or nothing', but, um, where was I? A mix of exp., gut feeling, soul searching, mind numbing, time consuming, procedure that embodies what being a football guy entails. With the resources at his disposal? And the general overall philosophy of the franchise in the balance. Gman will make, the best player available, a new Panther.

We are in a truly unique position. Pretty much, the kid we draft with pick #28, will more than likely be a day one starter. Gman has said he wants starters in the 1st 2 rounds at least. Nothing really unique there. I know...Where ever this kid plays. He will make us better. I got nothin' after that. What do I know anyway.

IF WE DRAFT

Oline. He instantly becomes our best lineman.

WR. Same as above. But he is a WR. Not a lineman.

RB. Ouch.

QB. Giggle.

Oh and TE. A TE this talented instantly upgrades our passing attack. And probably signals the official start of the Shula and the 2 TE set era.

Dline. Kid better be a total beast to win playing time. It ain't happening this year. Sorry.

LBers. If he can cover, blitz, tackle, and stay out of Keek and TD limelight. Sure. Otherwise. No.

CB. He instantly gives our secondary some cred.

S. Same as above. But, once again, it is a totally different position. Right?

In my mind. WR, CB, and OL seem to be the areas of greatest need. Do we highlight them in our process of evaluation? Making these positions a higher priority over say, that LBer kid could be good.

LONG story short. I see a lot of skill position playerz in this years picks. And Oline guys too. I got ahead of myself there for a moment. Listening to Bill Withers get me going.

 

Wow!  My heads still spinning from that, lol.  To be honest, I'm not completely sure what your point was.  I can't tell if you were disagreeing with me, using my post as a springboard for a rant, or what. 

 

Nevertheless, I think we fans are at a disadvantage when it comes to rating prospects.  We only have media analysts to help us order players on our own personal big board, but typically those analysts have biases, are regurgitating misinformation, don't have a good handle on many players, talk just because they have a deadline and have to create something to discuss, etc..  Yet, they are the ones with the access to film, team personnel, and other resources that we don't.  So where do we get reliable information? 

 

So when we try to predict who would be a good pick for the Panthers, we really cannot even call it a quality educated guess.  It's only a guess based on imperfect and incomplete second hand information.  You mentioned a master list, well, it doesn't exist.  Nobody KNOWS anything, they just think, guess, and try to extrapolate.  But, since it's all we have to work with, all we can do is just try and have fun with it. 

[iamhubby1]

Wow!  My heads still spinning from that, lol.  To be honest, I'm not completely sure what your point was.  I can't tell if you were disagreeing with me, using my post as a springboard for a rant, or what. 

 

Nevertheless, I think we fans are at a disadvantage when it comes to rating prospects.  We only have media analysts to help us order players on our own personal big board, but typically those analysts have biases, are regurgitating misinformation, don't have a good handle on many players, talk just because they have a deadline and have to create something to discuss, etc..  Yet, they are the ones with the access to film, team personnel, and other resources that we don't.  So where do we get reliable information? 

 

So when we try to predict who would be a good pick for the Panthers, we really cannot even call it a quality educated guess.  It's only a guess based on imperfect and incomplete second hand information.  You mentioned a master list, well, it doesn't exist.  Nobody KNOWS anything, they just think, guess, and try to extrapolate.  But, since it's all we have to work with, all we can do is just try and have fun with it.

Don't go downplaying and trying to have fun with the draft now. This is serious bidness.

That said. I am sure glad I don't have to make the choices. I know I could come up with a decent plan. But I just know I would muck it up somehow.

I love this time of year. Especially now with the advent of the interwebz. So many fans, with so many opinions. Man, when I grew up, if you wanted to talk sports, you had to go find someone to talk with. Now, click a couple of buttons, and ping pang, here we are.

I readily admit I can get lost in translation at times. My passion is ahead of my typing. Oh well, ain't gonna fix itself.

Skill players and Olinemen. That is what I see in this draft.

[panthers55]

But what is BPA?  That's not something Gettleman, nor anyone else will or can tell you.  That's because there is no definitive definition of BPA...even within a team.  I think many fans think of it as an individual, but it almost never is, BPA is typically more a grouping of players that are all rated similarly.  And when a team has a group of players rated about the same, they will look to a position of need when making their decision.  So when Gettleman says he will go BPA, he's really not telling you anything. 

 

And Short was no more BPA than many other players we could have taken at that spot.  He absolutely was a need.  We were almost completely barren at DT, and had a huge need for two of them heading into the draft.  We only had an aging Edwards at the 3 tech, and we needed to find his replacement as badly as any other need.  It was all about choices..."do we want to go DT again and worry about WR next year, or do we want to take a WR and get our 3 tech next year?" type of choices.

 

BPA is really one of those ambiguous terms that can mean anything and commits nothing.

I also postulated the grouping idea in an earlier post so obviously we are in agreement about that. I don't agree that Short was a need given that we just got Star and already had veterans at the position.  I also don't agree that Barner or Klein were needs as well while we ignored positions like tackle, corner, and safety which were needs.

So I do think that Gettleman has shown he will go BPA and it won't be just between WR, OT or secondary although I hope those positions are covered in the draft. 

[Hammerin'Cameron34]

Every Panthers fan I know learned to love Shockey for the 1 season he gave us. I'm a Shockey fan...before he played for us I couldn't stand him. 2 TE sets are perfect for what we want to do...T.O.P. Run ball effectively and play D

[Woodie]

I also postulated the grouping idea in an earlier post so obviously we are in agreement about that. I don't agree that Short was a need given that we just got Star and already had veterans at the position.  I also don't agree that Barner or Klein were needs as well while we ignored positions like tackle, corner, and safety which were needs.

So I do think that Gettleman has shown he will go BPA and it won't be just between WR, OT or secondary although I hope those positions are covered in the draft. 

 

Yeah, I think we generally agree, there are just some specific points we may differ on.  As for Barner and Klein, I think when you get to that point in the draft, you're just looking for depth and/or taking a chance on a flawed player.  But I do think both filled needs.  Klein was taken as immediate depth and a possible future starter at SLB, and Barner was that scat back type Rivera has been wanting.   

 

I do want to say that I also think Gettleman will choose from a BPA group, and if there isn't a WR or OT available in that group, he would go in another direction (probably CB, DE, then maybe TE or S, in that order).  I really do not think he will reach for a guy he has rated in a lower tier just because he fills a need.  But I also believe that there will be at least one WR or OT available that fits his BPA mold.  So I don't think it will come to a player in one of those other positions.     

[thefuzz]

If we go TE or WR at any point in the draft, I will have no problems.

 

I will have a problem if we go TE or WR that aren't scoring/red zone threats.

[Udogg]

2 TE sets are nice because they keep defenses balanced.  You don't get as much overloading to the left or right side because you just audible to the weaker side.  It was very effective for us Cam's rookie year because we ran the read out of the 2 TE offense.  Which put even more pressure on the defense to stay disciplined.   The drawback is if your TE isn't a threat.  If somehow someway we can get an effective run game, it would be awesome.  

 

 

[panthers55]

Yeah, I think we generally agree, there are just some specific points we may differ on.  As for Barner and Klein, I think when you get to that point in the draft, you're just looking for depth and/or taking a chance on a flawed player.  But I do think both filled needs.  Klein was taken as immediate depth and a possible future starter at SLB, and Barner was that scat back type Rivera has been wanting.   

 

I do want to say that I also think Gettleman will choose from a BPA group, and if there isn't a WR or OT available in that group, he would go in another direction (probably CB, DE, then maybe TE or S, in that order).  I really do not think he will reach for a guy he has rated in a lower tier just because he fills a need.  But I also believe that there will be at least one WR or OT available that fits his BPA mold.  So I don't think it will come to a player in one of those other positions.     

Yeah we do generally agree.  I just think that finding a dominant TE like the next Vernon Davis or Gonzales (yeah they aren't that common.) actually better fits our philosophy and gives a defense more mismatches than even some of the top WRs.  So if I saw the 2nd best TE versus the 5th or 6th wide receiver or 8th best OT, I would be looking at TE unless I thought I could get equal talent in later rounds. Then again I have wanted us to pick a dominant TE for years now and was thrilled we got Olsen who I had wanted all along.

[Woodie]

Yeah we do generally agree.  I just think that finding a dominant TE like the next Vernon Davis or Gonzales (yeah they aren't that common.) actually better fits our philosophy and gives a defense more mismatches than even some of the top WRs.  So if I saw the 2nd best TE versus the 5th or 6th wide receiver or 8th best OT, I would be looking at TE unless I thought I could get equal talent in later rounds. Then again I have wanted us to pick a dominant TE for years now and was thrilled we got Olsen who I had wanted all along.

 

I'd love a dominant TE as well, but I think we need OT and WR even more, and those are the positions I see us taking at 28 and 60.  After that, I just don't think any TE will add much to what we already have.  If we needed a possession receiver, then I think a great receiving TE would do just as well as a receiver.  However, we need someone that can stretch the field, and I don't think any TE we could get is going to give us that.   

[panthers55]

I'd love a dominant TE as well, but I think we need OT and WR even more, and those are the positions I see us taking at 28 and 60.  After that, I just don't think any TE will add much to what we already have.  If we needed a possession receiver, then I think a great receiving TE would do just as well as a receiver.  However, we need someone that can stretch the field, and I don't think any TE we could get is going to give us that.   

I think folks are going to be surprised with what underwood will do with a good quarterback much like how Ginn improved last year.  Underwood is very fast, can take the top off vertically and he has pretty good hands.  I think a TE who can run a 4.5 like Olsen gives you size, speed and great hands.  Some of the wides actually are tall enough and big enough to look like TEs and that would be fine as well.  I just don't think we need any more little guys no matter how fast.

[SauceBoss]

1 Tackle

2 WR

3 CB/OG

4 WR/OG

5-7 BPA

[jarhead]

I thought he should run more two TE sets last year. We know we will need help on the left side this year so it makes perfect sense that we will run more two TE sets. 

[shreddingdefense]

No reason we can't have 2 te sets and a number one receiver, its also possible that that one guy is already on the roster.