For those interested: A break down of the $$$: salary + cap, err "slush fund" per ESPN/D. Newton

[rayzor]

Agreed on the RB, but an Elite DE can never be overvalued in my opinion. Once we sign Hardy long term the cap # will be more justifiable.

they account for 20% of the total cap and 50% of the defense cap. i don't care how much value you put on DE, that's too much committed to one position. 

[rayzor]

RBs yes, but not DE's.  I think pass rushers are the 2nd most important position on a football team.  Obviously after QB.  

important enough to take up 50% of the cap on defense and 20% of the total cap?

 

i say no. 31 other teams say the same. 

 

no other team comes anywhere close to committing that much to it.

[thefuzz]

important enough to take up 50% of the cap on defense and 20% of the total cap?

 

i say no. 31 other teams say the same. 

 

no other team comes anywhere close to committing that much to it.

 

St. Louis will at some point.

But I agree, CJ and Hardy's cap numbers are huge....but at least they are playing, and playing well, and in their primes.

 

Our RB's however are a fuging joke.

[csx]

Having really good DE play is important but not at any cost.

 

But sheesh, that RB situation is disgusting.

[top dawg]

I knew that this thread would evoke a lot of reactions---become a gripe session.

 

The thing is though, we already had a picture (albeit with not as much clarity) as to what was going on, so really there aren't any surprises.

 

G-man will have our cap issues fixed in a couple of years in regards to our RBs. As for DE, we are just going to have to let someone walk, or grin and bear it because elite pass rushers come with a price. Good defensive ends are generally the second highest paid players on a team on average.

 

Check this out!  It's a little dated, but not too old relatively (2013). 

 

 

Thanks to Business Insider:

 

 

We all know that G-man is going to get our budget in order.  Like it or not, we are going to have to be very patient, and hope that G-man's prowess at  finding cheap talent will sustain us near the top of the league until he can gradually slice the fat off the pig and get to the lean meat.

[nctarheel0619]

important enough to take up 50% of the cap on defense and 20% of the total cap?

 

i say no. 31 other teams say the same. 

 

no other team comes anywhere close to committing that much to it.

Well when you put it that way, true.  

[rayzor]

I knew that this thread would evoke a lot of reactions---become a gripe session.

 

The thing is though, we already had a picture (albeit with not as much clarity) as to what was going on, so really there aren't any surprises.

 

G-man will have our cap issues fixed in a couple of years in regards to our RBs. As for DE, we are just going to have to let someone walk, or grin and bear it because elite pass rushers come with a price. Good defensive ends are generally the second highest paid players on a team on average.

 

Check this out!  It's a little dated, but not too old relatively (2013). 

 

 

Thanks to Business Insider:

 

 

We all know that G-man is going to get our budget in order.  Like it or not, we are going to have to be very patient, and hope that G-man's prowess at  finding cheap talent will sustain us near the top of the league until he can gradually slice the fat off the pig and get to the lean meat.

we have the most dynamic QB in the league and will be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

we have the best (4-3) MLB in the league who will also be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

if we keep both hardy and CJ, we're pretty much f*cked capwise and we better hope that the $10mil we have left to spend on the rest of the team will be enough.

 

seriously, i don't care how good gettleman is, what we have with CJ and hardy is not sustainable and it's not good for trying to build a well balanced team.

 

paying for 1 elite DE is definitely workable. 2 is not...at least not for very long. huge sacrifices are going to have to be made yearly to keep that up. the choice is going to be this every year...pay for 2 elite DEs and have to make due with the table scraps that gettleman finds and hope that they do alright on the piddly one year deal that we can barely afford and have to start all over, or move one of them and create a balanced D with a team that is put together and can stay together for several years and gel as a unit.

[top dawg]

we have the most dynamic QB in the league and will be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

we have the best (4-3) MLB in the league who will also be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

if we keep both hardy and CJ, we're pretty much f*cked capwise and we better hope that the $10mil we have left to spend on the rest of the team will be enough.

 

seriously, i don't care how good gettleman is, what we have with CJ and hardy is not sustainable and it's not good for trying to build a well balanced team.

 

paying for 1 elite DE is definitely workable. 2 is not...at least not for very long. huge sacrifices are going to have to be made yearly to keep that up. the choice is going to be this every year...pay for 2 elite DEs and have to make due with the table scraps that gettleman finds and hope that they do alright on the piddly one year deal that we can barely afford and have to start all over, or move one of them and create a balanced D with a team that is put together and can stay together for several years and gel as a unit.

 

Oh, yeah, I know.  But I'm thinking if that we could get both down to about $11 mil per year, then we'd at least have to think about it. I am fully expecting for one of our DEs to hit the pavement. We're likely going to have to invest in some young guys (someone already on the roster or from the draft).  

 

As for the RBs, I am totally unconcerned.  That's gonna work itself out naturally.  The market has decreased, and good RBs are not going to be that difficult to replace (either via free agency or the draft)). 

 

Now Cam and Kuechly are just going to have to get their market value.  I fully expect Cam's contract to be in the $20-25 mil range.  Hopefully the cap increase will help with these guys, or we'll just have to jettison some other pieces to the puzzle (maybe Hardy, CJ, Stewart or someone else), but that's the cap---one big puzzle.  G-man will figure it out, and we'll be better for it within the next couple of years.

[panthers222]

How much money did the Skins have when they signed him?

 

Until the RBs contract get more reasonable we won't have enough money to sign any good WRs. We need to save as much as possible to get the next crop of guys to resign. You do realize they mortgaged their future in order to sign Jackson. The last thing you want to do is max out your credit cards when your broke because it sets up a situation like what the panthers have right now AKA "Cap hell". 

 

What happens when your in Cap hell

 

You have a no name secondary that you pay in peanuts. You have to shore up the front 7 to keep the backside from being exposed. 

 

You can't sign any decent WRs so you end up with cotchery and underwood

 

You can't fix the OL

 

The good news is the worst is over and we are recovering. Just wait for the fall out in Washington a few years when they realize they have no money, a sucky defense, and overpaid guys.

[panthers222]

we have the most dynamic QB in the league and will be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

we have the best (4-3) MLB in the league who will also be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

if we keep both hardy and CJ, we're pretty much f*cked capwise and we better hope that the $10mil we have left to spend on the rest of the team will be enough.

 

seriously, i don't care how good gettleman is, what we have with CJ and hardy is not sustainable and it's not good for trying to build a well balanced team.

 

paying for 1 elite DE is definitely workable. 2 is not...at least not for very long. huge sacrifices are going to have to be made yearly to keep that up. the choice is going to be this every year...pay for 2 elite DEs and have to make due with the table scraps that gettleman finds and hope that they do alright on the piddly one year deal that we can barely afford and have to start all over, or move one of them and create a balanced D with a team that is put together and can stay together for several years and gel as a unit.

 

Actually I wouldn't mind paying DEs elite money. Our defense kept teams averaging 15pts a game. If the DEs were a major part of that then I would have no problem paying them big. Another interesting topic is how we should build our team in terms how we allocate money. 

 

Id say for the team we already have:

QB is obviously the most important position so you have to put alot here

DE/DT/OL probably the second most important 

Linebacker core probably 3rd

 

After that it gets pretty hard to judge. 

 

Secondary to me doesn't need to be great when you shore up the front 7 like us. I would probably go cheap here. The key thing to remember here is that you can't stack every position in your team because of the salary cap. Your good players will leave for more money so weakness are almost a given on any team

 

WR to me is moderately important. I personally think you can get away with less WRs talent than say less QB/DE/DT/OL/LB talent. We went 12-4 with arguably one of the worst WRs core last year. 

 

RB pay these guys peanuts...

[jarhead]

we have the most dynamic QB in the league and will be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

we have the best (4-3) MLB in the league who will also be due for a new contract in the next couple years.

if we keep both hardy and CJ, we're pretty much f*cked capwise and we better hope that the $10mil we have left to spend on the rest of the team will be enough.

 

seriously, i don't care how good gettleman is, what we have with CJ and hardy is not sustainable and it's not good for trying to build a well balanced team.

 

paying for 1 elite DE is definitely workable. 2 is not...at least not for very long. huge sacrifices are going to have to be made yearly to keep that up. the choice is going to be this every year...pay for 2 elite DEs and have to make due with the table scraps that gettleman finds and hope that they do alright on the piddly one year deal that we can barely afford and have to start all over, or move one of them and create a balanced D with a team that is put together and can stay together for several years and gel as a unit.

I think going forward you need to keep  a great pass rusher on his rookie contract which means you draft a DE every 2 or 3 years. Paying 2 big contracts is not sustainable. I would not be surprised if GMan pulls the trigger on one this year or next.

[HoFBound59]

Oh, yeah, I know.  But I'm thinking if that we could get both down to about $11 mil per year, then we'd at least have to think about it. I am fully expecting for one of our DEs to hit the pavement. We're likely going to have to invest in some young guys (someone already on the roster or from the draft).  

 

As for the RBs, I am totally unconcerned.  That's gonna work itself out naturally.  The market has decreased, and good RBs are not going to be that difficult to replace (either via free agency or the draft)). 

 

Now Cam and Kuechly are just going to have to get their market value.  I fully expect Cam's contract to be in the $20-25 mil range.  Hopefully the cap increase will help with these guys, or we'll just have to jettison some other pieces to the puzzle (maybe Hardy, CJ, Stewart or someone else), but that's the cap---one big puzzle.  G-man will figure it out, and we'll be better for it within the next couple of years.

 

This was my point when it comes to DE's. Hardy's cap # will come down or he will leave next year. If we could keep both for around 11 mill, then do it. Top end DE's are rare. Games are won by the linemen. If it is some what reasonable, keep our D-Line together.

[jarhead]

Other than Hardy signing a long term deal and  Godfrey taking a massive pay cut or being cut do we have any other sources of cap space this year?

 

 

[AceBoogie]

Until the RBs contract get more reasonable we won't have enough money to sign any good WRs. We need to save as much as possible to get the next crop of guys to resign. You do realize they mortgaged their future in order to sign Jackson. The last thing you want to do is max out your credit cards when your broke because it sets up a situation like what the panthers have right now AKA "Cap hell".

What happens when your in Cap hell

You have a no name secondary that you pay in peanuts. You have to shore up the front 7 to keep the backside from being exposed.

You can't sign any decent WRs so you end up with cotchery and underwood

You can't fix the OL

The good news is the worst is over and we are recovering. Just wait for the fall out in Washington a few years when they realize they have no money, a sucky defense, and overpaid guys.

Could have signed Tedd Ginn back he was affordable, we told Steve Smith to go away while still paying him and we told Nicks to take less money to go somewhere else. That ain't cap hell, that's Gettlemam hell.

Meanwhile the huddle thinks market price is overpaying.