Rivera says Cam wasn't consulted in WR moves

[Mr. Scot]

Obviously you don't company man.

Duper nor Clayton would be in anybody's top 40 greatest WR'S of all time and neither are in the HOF.

Without Marino those Miami teams wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

And Elway took 3 teams to the Superbowl before Rod and Macaffrey were even in the League. Remember the 3 amigo?? (Ricky Nattiel, Vance Johnson, and Some other guy nobody remembers because Elway was those Broncos teams.

And if Andrew Luck isn't on the Colts do they even make the playoffs??

Yes no team is a 1 person thing but their are examples of1 person carrying a heavy ass load. When it comes to certain teams.

Without Cam this offense doesn't have a running game in the top 10 or able to be 1 of the best 3rd down conversion teams. Cam made the oline, the running game and the WR corp look better then they really were.

Side note: Don't question my knowledge of football history again I will embarrasse you more times then not.

You've been on this really childish stick of calling names of people who don't agree with your opinion. You're way better then that.

 

Please :lol:

 

I'm sure you and Google have an extensive knowledge of football history. What you don't have, as shown by your responses, is a sense of it.  I have it because I actually watched those guys you're googling play (and I'm not talking about on NFL Films). 

 

For one, talking about the teams Elway took to the Super Bowl (back in the days when playing at Mile High was a bigger advantage than it is these daysm thanks to improvements in conditioning) as an example that proves your point.  Do me a favor and post the scores of those games and tell me how strong your post stands up.  For comparison's sake, make sure you also post the scores of the ones where he had Terrell Davis.

 

And Marino as an example of a one-man show?  The guy who went to one Super Bowl and never went again?  The guy who everyone said would be back once Jimmy Johnson took over the Dolphins but never was because - everyone agreed - Johnson failed to build a good enough team around him.  Nice argument.  Oh and those 'nobodies' Duper and Clayton?  they're revered in Miami, sharing space in the ring of honor with legends like the guys from the 72 team.  Any Dolphin fan that heard you say Duper and Clayton meant little to nothing to Marino's success would likely laugh in your face.

 

But hey, if you wanna go for examples of guys that you think are the whole deal, why go with Luck?  Why not go with the guy everyone says he's modeled after, Peyton Manning?  Why not reference him?  Well, maybe because everybody watched his 'one man show' in last year's Super Bowl.  Specifically, they watched it get beaten by an organization that took a team approach, and in so doing, got it done in dominating fashion (and without consulting Russell Wilson on whom they should sign).

 

Bottom Line: Quarterbacks carry a heavy load on offense because they're the guys that touch the ball on just about every play.  But pretty much every one of them - including Newton, Luck, Manning, etc - will tell you they can't do it without the guys around them. 

 

Maybe you should try taking their word for it if you don't like mine.

[WOW!!]

Please :lol:

I'm sure you and Google have an extensive knowledge of football history. What you don't have, as shown by your responses, is a sense of it. I have it because I actually watched those guys you're googling play (and I'm not talking about on NFL Films).

For one, talking about the teams Elway took to the Super Bowl (back in the days when playing at Mile High was a bigger advantage than it is these daysm thanks to improvements in conditioning) as an example that proves your point. Do me a favor and post the scores of those games and tell me how strong your post stands up. For comparison's sake, make sure you also post the scores of the ones where he had Terrell Davis.

And Marino as an example of a one-man show? The guy who went to one Super Bowl and never went again? The guy who everyone said would be back once Jimmy Johnson took over the Dolphins but never was because - everyone agreed - Johnson failed to build a good enough team around him. Nice argument. Oh and those 'nobodies' Duper and Clayton? they're revered in Miami, sharing space in the ring of honor with legends like the guys from the 72 team. Any Dolphin fan that heard you say Duper and Clayton meant little to nothing to Marino's success would likely laugh in your face.

But hey, if you wanna go for examples of guys that you think are the whole deal, why go with Luck? Why not go with the guy everyone says he's modeled after, Peyton Manning? Why not reference him? Well, maybe because everybody watched his 'one man show' in last year's Super Bowl. Specifically, they watched it get beaten by an organization that took a team approach, and in so doing, got it done in dominating fashion (and without consulting Russell Wilson on whom they should sign).

Bottom Line: Quarterbacks carry a heavy load on offense because they're the guys that touch the ball on just about every play. But pretty much every one of them - including Newton, Luck, Manning, etc - will tell you they can't do it without the guys around them.

Maybe you should try taking their word for it if you don't like mine.

Really Scott?? Did you just change the debate from 1 player carrying a team to now they needed to win a superbowl while doing it??

1. You could have put any 2 wr on those Dolphins teams and Marino would have made them look as good.

Nobody other then Dolphin fans hold Duper and Clayton to any HOF status.

2. The fact the Broncos went to 3 superbowls with no other HOF but Elway is a testament.

3. I guess you missed the part where I said no player is a 1 man team. It seems like( me knowing more about football history bothered you so much) you forgot to read that part.

No player in the ultimate team sport can win without help.

But threw out football history some players have had to carry a heavy load for their team to have success.

See Adrian Peterson 2 years ago.

[Mr. Scot]

Really Scott?? Did you just change the debate from 1 player carrying a team to now they needed to win a superbowl while doing it??

1. You could have put any 2 wr on those Dolphins teams and Marino would have made them look as good.

Nobody other then Dolphin fans hold Duper and Clayton to any HOF status.

2. The fact the Broncos went to 3 superbowls with no other HOF but Elway is a testament.

3. I guess you missed the part where I said no player is a 1 man team. It seems like( me knowing more about football history bothered you so much) you forgot to read that part.

No player in the ultimate team sport can win without help.

But threw out football history some players have had to carry a heavy load for their team to have success.

See Adrian Peterson 2 years ago.

 

Change the debate?  Nah.  Just pointed out the folly on your side of it.

 

Play it however you wish though.  I already know you're not someone all that worth arguing with.  I'm not interested in watching you try to spin stuff so that if you look at it a certain way, it makes sense.

 

Engage in whatever mental gymnastics make you happy.  More interesting stuff than this has come along to talk about.

 

(oh, and by all means, say something silly like claiming I'm afraid of you or you embarrassed me)

[WOW!!]

Change the debate? Nah. Just pointed out the folly on your side of it.

Play it however you wish though. I already know you're not someone all that worth arguing with. I'm not interested in watching you try to spin stuff so that if you look at it a certain way a child it makes sense.

Engage in whatever mental gymnastics make you happy. More interesting stuff than this has come along to talk about.

(oh, and by all means, say something silly like claiming I'm afraid of you or you embarrassed me)

It takes a really pathetic existence to find alternative motive in a football disagreement on a football forum.

I don't agree with your opinion Scott deal with it. I've brought valid points to my opinion (you haven't dispelled one of them) instead of going to your usually whitty snarky remarks you could have just read my whole post. Where I gave the caveat "that no player truly in the ultimate team sport wins alone". No you decided to be a child about people not agreeing with you lately.

Side note : Comparing Peyton Manning's Colts to Andrew Luck's Colts was a major down fall by you.

Andrew luck doesn't have

1. Oline with a HOF center like Jeff Saturday

2. A Rb like Edjrien James

3. Marvin Harrison and a young Reggie Wayne

4. A TE in like Dwight Clark.

[mcdougal]

Well we both agree the past and probably current WRs will not be very good. Now would you rather pay 5-8mil more for the group we had last year? Keep in mind if you pay that money 3 years down the line we may not have enough money in the bank to sign Cam Luke or Star. Or you would be in a situation where you have to gut other members of the team to pay them.

 

See Cowboys - Ware or New Orleans - entire vet defense/sproles. 

 

Personally I don't think there will be a huge difference in the offense with this New core of WRs compared to the old one. 

 

I don't think we should be trying to get back to where we were last year. I think we should be trying to get better. In every area of our team, we should be trying to get better...offense, defense, special teams, coaching, fans, etc. Get better.

 

And who said we had to keep the entire WR group in tact? IMO, you let everyone else go but keep Smith or you let Smith go and keep 2...If necessary, the following year we replace the last couple of WRs from last season...

 

But what I object to is the wholesale losing of our entire WR core without...what appears to be replacements that are better. There is a chance that these replacements...who as of now will be rookies (the highest of which will be probably the 6th WR taken and the 28th overall pick) and vets whose careers can be best described as journeymen, are WORSE than even what we had last year.

 

And again, releasing Smith was not about saving money. We didn't really save anything letting him go.

 

Finally, I HATE your last sentence. There NEEDS to be a HUGE difference in the offense next year. Settling for what we had last year is at best playing with fire. We should not be in rebuilding mode. We should be contention mode.

[FoxBalld]

I don't think we should be trying to get back to where we were last year. I think we should be trying to get better. In every area of our team, we should be trying to get better...offense, defense, special teams, coaching, fans, etc. Get better.

 

And who said we had to keep the entire WR group in tact? IMO, you let everyone else go but keep Smith or you let Smith go and keep 2...If necessary, the following year we replace the last couple of WRs from last season...

 

But what I object to is the wholesale losing of our entire WR core without...what appears to be replacements that are better. There is a chance that these replacements...who as of now will be rookies (the highest of which will be probably the 6th WR taken and the 28th overall pick) and vets whose careers can be best described as journeymen, are WORSE than even what we had last year.

 

And again, releasing Smith was not about saving money. We didn't really save anything letting him go.

 

Finally, I HATE your last sentence. There NEEDS to be a HUGE difference in the offense next year. Settling for what we had last year is at best playing with fire. We should not be in rebuilding mode. We should be contention mode.

 

Holy fuging poo I've just read a post that make sense on this board.

[mcdougal]

Well apparently they did beat them out in practice. Hence why they are still here and G-man had 0 interest in overpaying our previous below-average players to stay here.

 

That year they had to develop on the squad will pay huge dividends this year.

 

I find it hard to believe that Smith, Lafell, Ginn, and Hixon were beat out last year in practice. How is it that our passing offense ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL and we had these gems just sitting on the sidelines?

 

Again, our passing offense was not in any way elite, so why did we have help just sitting on the bench and even with injury down the stretch they still couldn't get playing time?

 

If that is the case, both Rivera and Shula need to be fired immediately for wasting a real opportunity to compete for a SB.

 

BTW, they couldn't have beaten them out in practice this year as this year's practices have yet to begun. 

[Mr. Scot]

It takes a really pathetic existence to find alternative motive in a football disagreement on a football forum.

I don't agree with your opinion Scott deal with it. I've brought valid points to my opinion (you haven't dispelled one of them) instead of going to your usually whitty snarky remarks you could have just read my whole post. Where I gave the caveat "that no player truly in the ultimate team sport wins alone". No you decided to be a child about people not agreeing with you lately.

Side note : Comparing Peyton Manning's Colts to Andrew Luck's Colts was a major down fall by you.

Andrew luck doesn't have

1. Oline with a HOF center like Jeff Saturday

2. A Rb like Edjrien James

3. Marvin Harrison and a young Reggie Wayne

4. A TE in like Dwight Clark.

 

Seeing as I talked about last year's Super Bowl, Manning was playing for the Broncos, not the Colts.  Don't know if you watched the game, but I'd expect you would have at least heard who was playing in it or who Manning played for at some point.  Granted, that could just be a question of reading comprehension as opposed to knowledge.

 

But speaking of knowledge, worth pointing out that when he was with the Colts, Manning never had a "tight end like Dwight Clark" either.  He did, however, have a tight end named Dallas Clark.  Dwight Clark was the receiver who played for the 49ers in the 80s.  He was famous for "The Catch" that won the NFC Championship over Dallas and took the Niners to their first of several Super Bowls.

 

Don't question my knowledge of football history again I will embarrasse you more times then not.

 

Oh, I certainly won't :lol:

 

(I guess this is one of the 'not' times)

[RoaringRiot]

And again, releasing Smith was not about saving money. We didn't really save anything letting him go.

We saved something like $10-$12 million against the 2015 cap. That's a HUGE savings.

[RoaringRiot]

Seeing as I talked about last year's Super Bowl, Manning was playing for the Broncos, not the Colts. Don't know if you watched the game, but I'd expect you would have at least heard who was playing in it or who Manning played for at some point. Granted, that could just be a question of reading comprehension as opposed to knowledge.

But speaking of knowledge, worth pointing out that when he was with the Colts, Manning never had a "tight end like Dwight Clark" either. He did, however, have a tight end named Dallas Clark. Dwight Clark was the receiver who played for the 49ers in the 80s. he was famous for "The Catch" that won the NFC Championship over Dallas and took the Niners to their first of several Super Bowls.

Oh, I certainly won't :lol:

(I guess this is one of the 'not' times)

I fully LOL-ed at this one.

[Mr. Scot]

I fully LOL-ed at this one.

 

You remember back when Joe Montana was throwing touchdown passes to Bert Jones?

 

[FoxBalld]

We saved something like $10-$12 million against the 2015 cap. That's a HUGE savings.

 

Sure if we don't sign a replacement receiver, but we have. Let's say Cotchery is that replacement, he's not, that's 2 million this season, two million next season. That's 10 million minus four, if you consider Cotchery a replaceemnt, he's not.

[panthers222]

I don't think we should be trying to get back to where we were last year. I think we should be trying to get better. In every area of our team, we should be trying to get better...offense, defense, special teams, coaching, fans, etc. Get better.

 

And who said we had to keep the entire WR group in tact? IMO, you let everyone else go but keep Smith or you let Smith go and keep 2...If necessary, the following year we replace the last couple of WRs from last season...

 

But what I object to is the wholesale losing of our entire WR core without...what appears to be replacements that are better. There is a chance that these replacements...who as of now will be rookies (the highest of which will be probably the 6th WR taken and the 28th overall pick) and vets whose careers can be best described as journeymen, are WORSE than even what we had last year.

 

And again, releasing Smith was not about saving money. We didn't really save anything letting him go.

 

Finally, I HATE your last sentence. There NEEDS to be a HUGE difference in the offense next year. Settling for what we had last year is at best playing with fire. We should not be in rebuilding mode. We should be contention mode.

 

 

Well we all want this team to get better in every phase but the problem is money. This is real life. You can't upgrade every area of the team just because you want to. Problem is Marty maxed out the credit cards and we simply don't have the money to bring in the talent to upgrade the needed positions. We are broke and we cant really do much. Our team will be fine if we use the same formula as last year.

 

Why didn't we sign better WRs? Why didn't we keep any of the old WRs? We are broke man and worse thing is we mortgaged our future on top of everything.  

 

Keep in mind Smith cap hit was going to occur at some point. You certainly don't keep him in 2015 and 2016 at 7-9 mil. The cut now helps us out in 2015 and 2016 when we have a more realistic shot at a superbowl. We are an up and coming team that will improve with Cam, Luke, and Star. 

 

Remember what DG said. You don't want to be in a position where you worked on a guy for 4 years and then realize you have no money in the bank to pay the guy. (Cam Luke Star) We are paying off our credit cards so we will have money to resign them later. 

[WOW!!]

Seeing as I talked about last year's Super Bowl, Manning was playing for the Broncos, not the Colts.  Don't know if you watched the game, but I'd expect you would have at least heard who was playing in it or who Manning played for at some point.  Granted, that could just be a question of reading comprehension as opposed to knowledge.

 

But speaking of knowledge, worth pointing out that when he was with the Colts, Manning never had a "tight end like Dwight Clark" either.  He did, however, have a tight end named Dallas Clark.  Dwight Clark was the receiver who played for the 49ers in the 80s.  He was famous for "The Catch" that won the NFC Championship over Dallas and took the Niners to their first of several Super Bowls.

 

 

Oh, I certainly won't :lol:

 

(I guess this is one of the 'not' times)

OMG I typed Dwight instead of Dallas!!!

 

Still doesn't change the point nor the fact how much of a child you have become when people don't agree with you.