Cotchery/Underwood > LaFell/Ginn

[mav1234]

As a WR Underwood is pretty comparable to Teddy. But, imo, Teddy has better hands, and runs better routes. Shiano, in a blurb, talked about Underwood needing to work on being consistent with his hands and routes. He needs work, he may get the help he needs here. If so, I can live with that.

But Teddy has value in the return game. Add that value to his WR production. And he was extremely valuable to us. Hated to lose him.

 

Before Ginn came here, his hands were AWFUL.  He worked hard here.  I think Underwood could do the same.  If you look at Ginn before he came to Carolina, all the hits on him were the same as Underwood, only worse.  Ginn was COMPLETELY washed up. Underwood is coming off a 400 yard season - not much, but hey, Ginn was coming off being benched in consecutive years and not allowed to see the field on offense.

[ed bell]

I think Cotchery will elevate to opportunities given, so upgrade over LaFell... Underwood looks like a case of potential yet to be determined with great athleticism and burning speed. So a potential impact role player. There is certainly potential for this to be impressive. To act like it's only "meh" is short sighted, and kind of unfair at this stage. It's March!

[Jackofalltrades]

Barner is a fumbler. I hope he doesn't return kicks.

A little premature, no?

[iamhubby1]

That's why I said if, I don't expect much out of him but Ginn wasn't a significant loss in any way.  He was valuable to Carolina because Carolina had one of the worst receiving corps in the league and had been searching for a returner for years not because he was especially good at either.

I just think you are over valuing Underwood, while under valuing Teddy. IMO, Teddy exceeded expectations, hellz, destroyed them. He ran every route. (That 4th and 19 vs the aints was a deep crossing route. So we does use the whole field.) Has much better hands than given credit for. Played with a toughness I wasn't expecting. I actually, with my own eyes, saw him blocking.

Teddy absolutely earned/proved he is a viable WR with us. Add in his return ability, he was just to valuable for our pay scale. If this were 2 years from now where we have a modicum of cap space. Does this deal gets done? I say, hellz yeah he is still a Panther.

The last half of the year, he turned himself into a solid #2ish WR. I wasn't expecting that. If Underwood can meet, or exceed, that production. I can live with that.

He definitely has the potential. We have the coaching. Why not? From what I see. His flaws are coachable. (Inconsistent hands, route running.) I guess it isn't much different than getting an experienced, semi-expensive, draft pick, If you follow where I've drifted.

[mav1234]

I just think you are over valuing Underwood, while under valuing Teddy. IMO, Teddy exceeded expectations, hellz, destroyed them. He ran every route. (That 4th and 19 vs the aints was a deep crossing route. So we does use the whole field.) Has much better hands than given credit for. Played with a toughness I wasn't expecting. I actually, with my own eyes, saw him blocking.

Teddy absolutely earned/proved he is a viable WR with us. Add in his return ability, he was just to valuable for our pay scale. If this were 2 years from now where we have a modicum of cap space. Does this deal gets done? I say, hellz yeah he is still a Panther.

The last half of the year, he turned himself into a solid #2ish WR. I wasn't expecting that. If Underwood can meet, or exceed, that production. I can live with that.

He definitely has the potential. We have the coaching. Why not? From what I see. His flaws are coachable. (Inconsistent hands, route running.) I guess it isn't much different than getting an experienced, semi-expensive, draft pick, If you follow where I've drifted.

 

Ginn was an awesome surprise, but teams keyed into him in the 2nd half of the year, unfortunately, and though he made some great plays and ran some nice routes, his production dropped once people started to game plan against him in the 2nd half of the season (but I still think he was valuable).  He still made some nice plays, but his production wasn't there without another threat.   :(  I think his biggest value to us was as a PR overall, or at least his most underrated value.

 

I wish we'd managed to keep him, but I think underwood coming in is in a better place than Ginn was coming in, so I'm optimistic.

[iamhubby1]

Before Ginn came here, his hands were AWFUL.  He worked hard here.  I think Underwood could do the same.  If you look at Ginn before he came to Carolina, all the hits on him were the same as Underwood, only worse.  Ginn was COMPLETELY washed up. Underwood is coming off a 400 yard season - not much, but hey, Ginn was coming off being benched in consecutive years and not allowed to see the field on offense.

Teddy had 550 last year. With Smitty, and Olsen, ahead of him. With our Offense, with multiple options, he did well with what he got. 15.5 per catch. Bunch more yards, not a big difference in YPC. I take Teddy.

That said. Underwood very well, with our coaching staff, could grow to be as good. With a ceiling as high as he want to take it. If Underwood works as hard as Teddy did. He may see the field quite a bit. I can live with that.

[ed bell]

What Teddy was given the opportunity to do here is exactly what I hope to see Underwood take advantage of. If a receiver wants that big break and chance to shine we have the playing time available here.

On some level, I really believe that is part of the reasons Smitty was let go. It cleared the room for a fresh start for players to develop into future seasons instead of being the defacto fallback safety target for Cam. His role really needed to change, but his personality really was too strong to make it easy.

Love Smitty, always will, but coming off the PCL issue at 35 with us needing to reformulate our receiving corps forced Gettleman into a tough decision. He botched the execution, but I attribute that to being green as a member of our organization.

[mav1234]

Teddy had 550 last year. With Smitty, and Olsen, ahead of him. With our Offense, with multiple options, he did well with what he got. 15.5 per catch. Bunch more yards, not a big difference in YPC. I take Teddy.

That said. Underwood very well, with our coaching staff, could grow to be as good. With a ceiling as high as he want to take it. If Underwood works as hard as Teddy did. He may see the field quite a bit. I can live with that.

 

Well yes if you're talking the same contract etc you'd take Ginn any day, but we're not... When you look at the money he was making etc... Underwood is a good deal, and is in a better spot than Ginn was coming in, so I think he was a great grab.

 

Plus, overall, Cotchery/Underwood are very likely to be more productive on offense (excluding the PRs) than Lafell/Ginn

 

edit: last year's stats comparisons... not a huge drop off in production on receiving alone:

 

Ginn:

16 games, 36 receptions, 556 yards, 15.4 ypc, 5 TDs

 

Underwood:

12 games, 24 receptions, 440 yards, 18.3 YPC, 4 TDs

 

Keep in mind Underwood was behind Vjax and playing for a team with a much worse QB, too... so we'll see

[iamhubby1]

Ginn was an awesome surprise, but teams keyed into him in the 2nd half of the year, unfortunately, and though he made some great plays and ran some nice routes, his production dropped once people started to game plan against him in the 2nd half of the season (but I still think he was valuable).  He still made some nice plays, but his production wasn't there without another threat.   :(  I think his biggest value to us was as a PR overall, or at least his most underrated value.

 

I wish we'd managed to keep him, but I think underwood coming in is in a better place than Ginn was coming in, so I'm optimistic.

I see what you are saying with Underwood. He is coming in fresh off having at least some success. Whereas Teddy came in fresh off, nothing for 2 years. He very well could be trending up. If he can contribute as a WR, we are getting pretty close to filling out the depth.

One more solid #2WR or better added to the mix would definitely ease my mind. But, with Pilares, Cotchery, and maybe Underwood. That is a pretty good supporting cast. With McNutt and King lurking in the wings.

At the moment we seem to be banking on Pilares, or Barner, for the return game. Neither one, well Pilares did have some splash returns. Can replace Teddy. Really too bad we lost him.

[mav1234]

I see what you are saying with Underwood. He is coming in fresh off having at least some success. Whereas Teddy came in fresh off, nothing for 2 years. He very well could be trending up. If he can contribute as a WR, we are getting pretty close to filling out the depth.

One more solid #2WR or better added to the mix would definitely ease my mind. But, with Pilares, Cotchery, and maybe Underwood. That is a pretty good supporting cast. With McNutt and King lurking in the wings.

At the moment we seem to be banking on Pilares, or Barner, for the return game. Neither one, well Pilares did have some splash returns. Can replace Teddy. Really too bad we lost him.

 

agreed. wish we'd kept Ginn.  He was great for us last year... A couple of his returns practically won us games and he had some great catches.  He was always so electric when he got the ball in his hands.  Wish I could see what he could have done with a true #1 WR.

[Zithers]

Last season LaFell and Ginn combined were 85/1183/10. Cotchery and Underwood combined were 70/1042/14.

 

Not bad imo.

[Car123]

A little premature, no?

Didn't he fumble 3 times last season? 

[iamhubby1]

What Teddy was given the opportunity to do here is exactly what I hope to see Underwood take advantage of. If a receiver wants that big break and chance to shine we have the playing time available here.

On some level, I really believe that is part of the reasons Smitty was let go. It cleared the room for a fresh start for players to develop into future seasons instead of being the defacto fallback safety target for Cam. His role really needed to change, but his personality really was too strong to make it easy.

Love Smitty, always will, but coming off the PCL issue at 35 with us needing to reformulate our receiving corps forced Gettleman into a tough decision. He botched the execution, but I attribute that to being green as a member of our organization.

I guess that's the crux of the discussion. Underwood got his in only 12 games. Sounds good. Does the fact that they sat him for 4 games? He was productive when he was on the field. Why keep him off? From what I've learned. He has 2 flaws. Inconsistency with his hands, and his routes.

The potential is there. No doubt. Are his flaws coachable? Again, no doubt. Will he put in the work needed to excel? We are banking on...wait for it...he will. We are all excited about the "What If" with Underwood. To me, he is just a slightly higher paid, experienced, draft pick. So in that regard. Why not?

[Car123]

Barner looks like a rag doll out there.