Why has Hardy not be signed to a long term contract?

[TheNewStandard]

I get that buy low thing but we aren't gonna see him much lower until he gets into his 30's.

I don't get keeping a guy on your roster if you have hopes that this past year was an aberration and that his stock will fall so we can ink a better deal...if that's the case, we should just move on.

[xclr82xtc]

he hasnt been signed because the NFL cap is to low

 

[jarhead]

he hasnt been signed because the NFL cap is to low

Resident genius.

[panthers55]

Keeping him tagged garners us 2 first round draft picks in a trade.

Signing him to a long-term may not be feasible at this stage, especially when considering the upcoming contracts of Cam and Kuechly. It may be wise, though incredibly unfortunate and downright blasphemous, to trade Hardy for some unproven rookies!! I would be so friggin pissed if this went down!!!

Anyway...

As everyone knows, there is a lot of money tied up in our ends and even though it is quite the luxury, we still have team needs to fill that could be addressed with that money saved up for Hardy...such as OL, S, & WR. If worse comes to worse and we decide to make a trade, draft picks is the way to go and it would get us off the hook for his signing bonus that would immediately count against our cap.

Get it, got it? Logical enough or do I have to repeat myself a third time?

Once he signed his tender his salary is guaranteed and no other team can negotiate with him so the 2 first rounders is not an option.  The 2 1st rounder option if a team signs away a player who you have tagged was put there as a disincentive for teams poaching other team's players not something that happens very often.  We did it with Sean Gilbert many moons ago but it is very rarely done.

 

And as has been suggested tagging him gives you a big cap number but you don't have any dead cap money going forward if you don't keep him and he continues to play in essentially a contract  year so you are getting his maximum effort.  Even if we tagged him next year it would be around 15 million which is still less than Johnson's cap number.  I actually suspect we tagged Hardy because we don't know what we are doing with Johnson yet.  Unless he restructures he is as good as gone next year.  We would incur 16 million in dead cap space if we cut him this year but next year it goes down to 6 million while his cap goes up to 17 million.  So cutting Johnson next year will save us 11 million in cap which could buy you a pretty good defensive end or be 2/3 of what Hardy's cap will be next year.

[BelgianPantherFan]

I've been thinking about this scenario for a while, but maybe Gettleman isn't that eager to give Hardy his monster contract. With the CJ-contract, and Hardy looking for CJ-money, we could be loaded at DE for some years, not quite the best scenario with the contracts of Cam, Luke and Star coming up...

 

Maybe Gettleman/Rivera thinks that Alexander / Addison / Horton could fill in for Hardy quite fine with another year unther their belt. That would lower the cap size at DE with a huge chunk. With Star and Short that continue to grow as a player, CJ as an All-Pro DE, we don't need another huge contract to have a great front 4.

 

Also, if we let him play under his franchise tag this season, and Hardy signs a big contract elsewhere, we get a compensation pick, right? That could be a 2nd / 3th round pick, and could get us another solid, cheap and young starter.

 

[Jackofalltrades]

Wouldnt shock me if the plan is to leave him tendered this season, cut CJ after this season and sign Hardy to a big deal with CJs money. Of course that depends on how Hardy and CJ play this season but, unless CJ is cool with a big pay cut, this could be the last year we have both of them.

I could see that happening.

[Jackofalltrades]

I've been thinking about this scenario for a while, but maybe Gettleman isn't that eager to give Hardy his monster contract. With the CJ-contract, and Hardy looking for CJ-money, we could be loaded at DE for some years, not quite the best scenario with the contracts of Cam, Luke and Star coming up...

Maybe Gettleman/Rivera thinks that Alexander / Addison / Horton could fill in for Hardy quite fine with another year unther their belt. That would lower the cap size at DE with a huge chunk. With Star and Short that continue to grow as a player, CJ as an All-Pro DE, we don't need another huge contract to have a great front 4.

Also, if we let him play under his franchise tag this season, and Hardy signs a big contract elsewhere, we get a compensation pick, right? That could be a 2nd / 3th round pick, and could get us another solid, cheap and young starter.

Hardy made All Pro, not CJ. Compensatory picks start at the end of the 3rd, not getting a second.

If I'm going to tie that much money up, it's going to be in the younger guy. I love CJ, but if it comes down to one or the other Hardy is the one I keep.

[stirs]

Once he signed his tender his salary is guaranteed and no other team can negotiate with him so the 2 first rounders is not an option.  The 2 1st rounder option if a team signs away a player who you have tagged was put there a disincentive for teams poaching other team's players not something that happens very often.  We did it with Sean Gilbert many moons ago but it very rarely done.

 

And as has been suggested tagging him gives you a big cap number but you don't have any dead cap money going forward if you don't keep him and he continues to play in essentially a contract  year so you are getting his maximum effort.  Even if we tagged him next year it would be around 15 million which is still less than Johnson's cap number.  I actually suspect we tagged Hardy because we don't know what we are doing with Johnson yet.  Unless he restructures he is as good as gone next year.  We would incur 16 million in dead cap space if we cut him this year but next year it goes down to 6 million while his cap goes up to 17 million.  So cutting Johnson next year will save us 11 million in cap which could buy you a pretty good defensive end or be 2/3 of what Hardy's cap will be next year.

 

And, since he is ours, I am thinking we can trade him to anyone for pick or picks or players?  Or does he and his agent have to agree?  Mostly the other team would need to negotiate the contract suitable to his agent and then the trade could go through.

[BelgianPantherFan]

Hardy made All Pro, not CJ. Compensatory picks start at the end of the 3rd, not getting a second.

If I'm going to tie that much money up, it's going to be in the younger guy. I love CJ, but if it comes down to one or the other Hardy is the one I keep.

 

Yeah, my mistake.

I also checked CJ's contract at Spotrac, and cutting him next season would create 6M dead money (thought it was double). That's quite reasonable, and would give us room to extend Hardy.

 

[stirs]

Example:

 

 

In February 2008, the Chiefs placed the franchise tag on Allen, giving him a one-year, $8.8 million salary for 2008.^[10]

Minnesota Vikings

Allen with the Vikings in 2011.

On April 22, 2008, the Chiefs traded Allen to the Minnesota Vikings in exchange for a first-round pick, which they used to select OT Branden Albert, and two third-round picks, one of which was used to take Jamaal Charles, and swapped sixth-round picks in the 2008 NFL Draft. The Vikings then signed Allen to a six-year contract, which at the time was the richest contract for a defensive player in NFL history.^[11] Allen was due an $8 million roster bonus in 2010, per the six-year, US$72.36 million contract he signed with the Vikings, and his signing bonus was $15.5 million.

 

 

 

 

 

So, keeping him tagged does NOT necessarily get us two 1st round picks in a trade, it gets us whatever we can get greater or smaller than 2 1st round picks, it is up to Gman as to what he wants and can fleece another team out of.

 

 

[panthers55]

And, since he is ours, I am thinking we can trade him to anyone for pick or picks or players?  Or does he and his agent have to agree?  Mostly the other team would need to negotiate the contract suitable to his agent and then the trade could go through.

From what I can tell, we can trade him to whoever we want whether he agrees or not.  The reason Peppers did not sign his tag was because he wanted to control what happened to him.  But Hardy can control the proceeding somewhat by deciding to play or not play for the other team or not negotiating.  IIRC, since his contract is guaranteed he could theoretically sit out for a good part of the season and still earn the year eligibility.  Or come up with a mysterious injury.   Hardy doesn't seem like that kind of guy but I suspect that a player could have some say in what happens despite the team having the majority of the leverage.

 

Most times the player agrees to go elsewhere and gets paid a huge contract to do so and everyone is happy.

[stirs]

That is why I had my 2nd of 3 mocks showing a trade to Minny for a 2nd this year and a second next.

 

Minny has done this type thing before, just hoping they want to do it again.

[Peppers90 NC]

Hardy probably wants that $13m this year rather than only 8 or 9 which is what we would probably offer in the first year for a long term.  You won't find any actual answers here, if that is what you are looking for, just speculation.

[MadHatter]

I've thought about this as well. Honestly, we might as well tag him again because 13 million isn't so bad when you look at CJs contract and we could draft a DE to bring along in the event Hardy is gone...BPA

He is elite, no doubt. The best RE in the league and that's no bs. People can say what they want about his sack totals but that paints a small picture. And those huge games were the ones that we locked-up the division, so it was quite important in the grand-scheme of the season.

Anyone that says he's overrated are a bunch of haters, cut-and-dry.

You would not be able to tag him a second time for 13m. If you tag a player for a second time, the amount us increased by 20%. So, the second tag would cost you almost 16m.