Capologists! Answer me! Is 7 mil all the money we have now?

[Evengelion]

Would Monroe take this for now? Sign him on credit.

[top dawg]

I'd be willing to buy Otah a Tailgate Special to bring him in and see what he's got.

[FattyFatFat]

Let's see, Godfrey has yet to be cut, Olsen and CJ have yet to restructure and Hardy's deal is yet to be finished...

What does a Godfrey cut give us in space? Is it 5 mil?

[AceBoogie]

I think you're getting a wee bit confused. Nobody is saying he shouldnt or wouldnt be upset. But it happens all the time in football, the falcons want Osi to take a cut after 1 season there.

And if you think all co-workers doing the exact same job get paid the same and its all based on working hard you're in for a rude awakening.

Lol you make assumptions without knowing me. You say I'm in for a "rude awakening" without even knowing my status in life. I know people don't get paid equal. I make more than people that do the same job I do. My point is that in a team sport, it hurts chemistry. You can't tell a guy like Steve Smith that he needs to take a paycut because he isn't worth the money. Then at the same time your throwing the bank at another player who may not even be the best d lineman on the team. Steve doesn't get to play next to Star, and CJ, KK, and Edwards. Teams can't ignore CJ like they can ignore Lafell.

You can't put a value on Steve Smith's worth when he isn't surrounded by the same talent. He's had to carry the WR load for basically his entire career. Meanwhile you have Greg Hardy who is allowed to make plays and beef up his numbers because of the talent that surrounds him.

Steve Smith came out AFTER injury and gave everything he had for this team in the playoffs. Where was Greg Hardy? Counting his dollars. I'll take a guy like Steve any day of the week, it's not all about money to him, but your not going to disrespect him either. He's given too much to this team for them to even ponder releasing him with no other WRs on the roster.

[TheRed]

There are still moves to be made.

[h0llywood]

Last year at this point the we had $936,000 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000154634/article/remaining-salarycap-space-for-each-nfl-team

 

Do you not remember that? Why are you panicking about this?

 

I am not panicking, however this list shows that the team had 50 contracts down already in 2013. Isn't there like 100 FA to be signed this year?

[csx]

I am not panicking, however this list shows that the team had 50 contracts down already in 2013. Isn't there like 100 FA to be signed this year?

We have 58 players under contract now.

[h0llywood]

We have 58 players under contract now.

 

Even better. Thank you!

[panthers55]

wouldn't that be a savings of 5 million in cap space?

Here is the information from spotrac.com.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/steve-smith/

 

So the scenarios are this.  If we keep him and exercise the option bonus we pay him 4 million in base salary this year, his bonus option is 1 million for a total salary of 5 million.  When you add the prorated signing bonus of 2 million you get a cap hit of 7 million.    By triggering the option bonus you extend the contract through 2016 and his salary of 9,000,000 that year and a cap hit of 12 million. Plus you are on the hook for the other two years of option bonus of 1 million apiece for a total of 3.

 

If you keep him this year but don't exercise the option bonus (don't know if this is an option or if the bonus kicks in automatically if he still here, but normally that is called a roster bonus not a bonus option) We are on the hook for his 4 million dollar salary, his non-exercise bonus kicks in which is 3 million, meaning a 7 million dollar salary and with a 2 million signing bonus proration we have a cap hit of 9 million this year.

If we cut him before the option bonus kicks in we still have to pay him 3 million of the 4 million in  2014 salary since it is guaranteed and his signing bonus proration escalates to 6 million giving us a dead cap hit of 9 million.  If this were after June 1st his cap hit would be the 3 million guaranteed money and the 2 million of the 6 million signing bonus proration (which is the 2014 portion) or 5 million this year and the remaining 4 million in cap hit would roll over to next year.

 

Since his cap hit if we keep him would be 7 million this year and 10 million next year, the savings to cut him would be at least 2 million this year (depending on the option clause) and 6 million next year for a total of 8 million.

 

So cutting him saves 1 million in salary and 3 million from the option bonus for a total of 4 million this year and 7 million next year. 

 

That is why they want him to renegotiate his contract which is what everyone expected to happen when he signed his contract in 2012.

[heel31ok]

Here is the information from spotrac.com.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/steve-smith/

 

So the scenarios are this.  If we keep him and exercise the option bonus we pay him 4 million in base salary this year, his bonus option is 1 million for a total salary of 5 million.  When you add the prorated signing bonus of 2 million you get a cap hit of 7 million.    By triggering the option bonus you extend the contract through 2016 and his salary of 9,000,000 that year and a cap hit of 12 million. Plus you are on the hook for the other two years of option bonus of 1 million apiece for a total of 3.

 

If you keep him this year but don't exercise the option bonus (don't know if this is an option or if the bonus kicks in automatically if he still here, but normally that is called a roster bonus not a bonus option) We are on the hook for his 4 million dollar salary, his non-exercise bonus kicks in which is 3 million, meaning a 7 million dollar salary and with a 2 million signing bonus proration we have a cap hit of 9 million this year.

If we cut him before the option bonus kicks in we still have to pay him 3 million of the 4 million in  2014 salary since it is guaranteed and his signing bonus proration escalates to 6 million giving us a dead cap hit of 9 million.  If this were after June 1st his cap hit would be the 3 million guaranteed money and the 2 million of the 6 million signing bonus proration (which is the 2014 portion) or 5 million this year and the remaining 4 million in cap hit would roll over to next year.

 

Since his cap hit if we keep him would be 7 million this year and 10 million next year, the savings to cut him would be at least 2 million this year (depending on the option clause) and 6 million next year for a total of 8 million.

 

So cutting him saves 1 million in salary and 3 million from the option bonus for a total of 4 million this year and 7 million next year. 

 

That is why they want him to renegotiate his contract which is what everyone expected to happen when he signed his contract in 2012.

The savings would be 1 mil this year which is nothing. This may kick in 2016 but the reality is he can still be cut later if he doesn't perform to the standard the Panthers want. The hit would still be less than if he stayed.he is still going to get paid for 2 years either way. If you cut him before 2015 season you still save.The 3 mil option bonus is neglible also. It is the base salary where you would save in the year he is cut and thereafter. The difference is what you pay for a year to see if this season becomes the trend or a blip.If just a blip you pay him the next year as it would be worth it and so on. 

[panthers55]

The savings would be 1 mil this year which is nothing. This may kick in 2016 but the reality is he can still be cut later if he doesn't perform to the standard the Panthers want. The hit would still be less than if he stayed.he is still going to get paid for 2 years either way. If you cut him before 2015 season you still save.The 3 mil option bonus is neglible also. It is the base salary where you would save in the year he is cut and thereafter. The difference is what you pay for a year to see if this season becomes the trend or a blip.If just a blip you pay him the next year as it would be worth it and so on. 

Why do you keep making up numbers.  You save 4 million in salary if you cut him this year, not 1.  I million in base salary and 3 million in option bonus.  And you save 2 million in salary cap as well as a June 1st cut. But the big savings are next year.  His salary and option bonus next year would be 8 million and his prorated signing bonus is 2 million for a total of 10 in cap hit, you save 6 million by cutting him now.  If you keep him this year and cut him next year you will still have dead cap space of 6 million which is 2 million more than if you cut him.

 

I understand that in the big scheme of things you can argue that 2 million this year and 2 or 4 million next year is no big deal and if Smith were having 1000 yard seasons we wouldn't be having this discussion.  But he had a big drop off last year and there is no guaranteed he won't drop off even further. How many receivers after the age of 35 have had 1000 yard seasons other than Jerry Rice? Not many.  Owens, Brown, Galloway area few.  How many are 5'9" and like to initiate contact?

Reggie Wayne tried it last year and got hurt and ended up with 500 yards.  Even Jerry Rice tore his ACL and missed the season at age 35.  Smith is slowing down and will be injury prone moving forward particularly given his game is desire, hard hits and not shrinking from contact.  That works when you are young but not when you are old.

 

Again he could very well be here this year but this will be his last unless he takes on a different role and restructures his contract.  Even then Gettleman is using him to send a message to the team I believe which is that if you don't play along and do what I ask you do, no one is irreplaceable, not even the last remaining player from the superbowl team who has meant so much to this franchise.  And that doesn't have a price tag on it.  Who is Gettleman talking to with that message.  I think Johnson for one, maybe others.

[Captain Morgan]

I think it's pretty safe to say we will sign Hardy to a longer deal that gets his cap hit down about

3 million this season, and by either cutting or restructuring Godfrey,  we can pick up a few million more.

 

By doing this alone, we should be back around 13 or 14 million under the cap.

[heel31ok]

Why do you keep making up numbers.  You save 4 million in salary if you cut him this year, not 1.  I million in base salary and 3 million in option bonus.  And you save 2 million in salary cap as well as a June 1st cut. But the big savings are next year.  His salary and option bonus next year would be 8 million and his prorated signing bonus is 2 million for a total of 10 in cap hit, you save 6 million by cutting him now.  If you keep him this year and cut him next year you will still have dead cap space of 6 million which is 2 million more than if you cut him.

 

I understand that in the big scheme of things you can argue that 2 million this year and 2 or 4 million next year is no big deal and if Smith were having 1000 yard seasons we wouldn't be having this discussion.  But he had a big drop off last year and there is no guaranteed he won't drop off even further. How many receivers after the age of 35 have had 1000 yard seasons other than Jerry Rice? Not many.  Owens, Brown, Galloway area few.  How many are 5'9" and like to initiate contact?

Reggie Wayne tried it last year and got hurt and ended up with 500 yards.  Even Jerry Rice tore his ACL and missed the season at age 35.  Smith is slowing down and will be injury prone moving forward particularly given his game is desire, hard hits and not shrinking from contact.  That works when you are young but not when you are old.

 

Again he could very well be here this year but this will be his last unless he takes on a different role and restructures his contract.  Even then Gettleman is using him to send a message to the team I believe which is that if you don't play along and do what I ask you do, no one is irreplaceable, not even the last remaining player from the superbowl team who has meant so much to this franchise.  And that doesn't have a price tag on it.  Who is Gettleman talking to with that message.  I think Johnson for one, maybe others.

Not making up numbers. We save 1 mil in cap space if he is cut this year.6 mil against the cap this year and 3.8 next year.

 

Now for his performance.He is one year removed from 1000 plus yd season. One year ,that is 1,uno...It is not like he has had several down years in a row in fact 2 out of last 3 yrs were 1000 plus. what any other 35 year old did really has nothing to do with Steve Smith. Just like what any other 35 year old did had nothing to do with J. Rice , Owens or Galloway.They stand on their own as does SS. But to play that game we could say since the avg career span of an NFL QB is 6.6 years we shouldn't sign Newton longterm , there are no guarantees.He is halfway done. Yes ridiculous.

 Injury wise anyone could get hurt at anytime so I don't see the point there. Players get hurt in all phases of their careers.

     When SS stops initiating contact is when we better start worrying.Not a factor right now.Shrinking back fron contact is inviting injury. That is the conventional wisdom taught early in life.

 

Again, he could very well be here this year and he could go for a 1000 plus again without restructuring. He could restructure and still go for 1000 and he would have lost in the deal. He could play at current salary not do well and be cut after the season and everyone moves on.I think the million  difference is not enough to worry about nor the 2 million the next (according to you) is a drop in the bucket when you consider all the money that will be freed up as well as the Cap continuing to rise.

 So G-man is negotiating with Johnson through SS? Making an example out of a player who has given his whole career to the Panthers.SS shouldn't be paid because of that but he also shouldn't be used as a pawn in the Gm's game.

 I think only SS knows where he is at skill wise and I also think if he couldn't perform at a high level he would be the first one to say it is over. I don't see him as a hanger on. When he is done he will say so and as for now he says he is not done.I don't see it and many others don't This is not about emotion it is about keeping a valuable player on the team. If he can't go then he can't and we move on.No shame in that no hard feelings in that, just reality.

[CelticCat]

Lol you make assumptions without knowing me. You say I'm in for a "rude awakening" without even knowing my status in life. I know people don't get paid equal. I make more than people that do the same job I do. My point is that in a team sport, it hurts chemistry. You can't tell a guy like Steve Smith that he needs to take a paycut because he isn't worth the money. Then at the same time your throwing the bank at another player who may not even be the best d lineman on the team. Steve doesn't get to play next to Star, and CJ, KK, and Edwards. Teams can't ignore CJ like they can ignore Lafell.

You can't put a value on Steve Smith's worth when he isn't surrounded by the same talent. He's had to carry the WR load for basically his entire career. Meanwhile you have Greg Hardy who is allowed to make plays and beef up his numbers because of the talent that surrounds him.

Steve Smith came out AFTER injury and gave everything he had for this team in the playoffs. Where was Greg Hardy? Counting his dollars. I'll take a guy like Steve any day of the week, it's not all about money to him, but your not going to disrespect him either. He's given too much to this team for them to even ponder releasing him with no other WRs on the roster.

 

If you know people don't get paid equally for doing the same job why did you say something so silly. Players get asked to take pay cuts all the time (regular joes too over the last 4 years). We all know this. Smitty and Hardy are in two completely different circumstances, 1 has already been paid tons of money and is nearing the end of his career, the other was a 6th rounder that has out performed that contract and was hitting FA for the first time.

 

Of course you can put a value on Smittys worth, you can put a value on everyone's worth to the team, that's part of the GM's job. The problem you're having is you're emotionally invested in Smitty and I get that, I am too. Its why Hurney handed out those ridiculous contracts earlier.

 

I'm also getting tired of people slamming Hardy for not getting a sack in every single game and trying to dilute his importance. He had 11 sacks in 2012 with the shitty interior we had that year so his production is not just a product of the guys inside him.

People say he got most his sacks in the last two games against NO and ATL. Well guess what, they were crucial wins that enabled us to pinch NO to the NFCS title and earn a bye. He had 15 sacks and was robbed of two others that got classified as tackles for loss for some weird reason I don't even understand. 1 QB dropped the ball, picked it up, tried to pass it, got tackled and for some reason its not a sack, downed Kap too if I remember rightly on the other.

 

Let me just say I love Smitty, I don't want to see him leave. But asking him to take a cut at this stage in his career isn't out of line. We did it with Gross just last year. If that's the fiscal decision Gman makes i'll understand it even if I don't like it. Steve can't play forever, if the team makes the decision to make the move when it better suits them contract wise I'm OK with it.

 

I think you're reaching with the team chemistry thing too. All teams deal with these issues in the offseason. When the ball gets kicked off in Sept, players know how to act like professionals, they don't bicker about who's making what.