Panthers, Hardy talking long-term deal

[B.BERSIN]

He just wants to get paid like Charles, which is VERY expensive.

[stirs]

How many teams are that interested in a guy who might get let go in a season after the tag? Before we get all excited about a tag and trade, please think about a team who is one franchise DE away from a super bowl run? And willing to make the investment in Hardy? Where as, If we lose him, we will have extreme difficulty relaxing his production. Especially on the run game... Sent from my VS980 4G using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

 

The Panthers would tag him, and generally, he is traded to a team who has already hashed out a long term deal.  He won't go to another team under the tag guidelines.

 

[Toundra]

He won't sign for below an avg if 12m. Plain and simple

 

If we don't have the money, the answer is obvious.

[MtnJax]

He turned down 8 long ago, has a devil for an agent, so don't expect anything comfortable. It is not about the Panthers at this point especially with Rosenhaus, just maximum dollars wherever he finds em

You really believe what Brett Jensen said? Hardy himself said that there was no contact about his contract during the season

[MadHatter]

You really believe what Brett Jensen said? Hardy himself said that there was no contact about his contract during the season

 

The information about that offer came last "offseason"....not during this past season.

[d-dave]

The Panthers would tag him, and generally, he is traded to a team who has already hashed out a long term deal.  He won't go to another team under the tag guidelines.

 

I understand that completely.  The question is, will there be a buyers market for him?  Everyone is assuming that we can tag and trade Hardy (or trade any number of our other players under contract) fairly easily.

 

As much as we think of Hardy, and the media sure loves some Kraken, if he's tagged for 2014, what's the incentive to get him when the Panthers will be in the same boat next year.  How often have tagged players been traded?  Teams, especially in this draft, are extremely wary of trading draft picks for star players.

 

Therefore, I see the most likely destination a team who is desperate for a complete, elite(?), DE; AND who can afford his $12-14 million a year contract who is also willing to part with at least a high 2nd?  

 

There are several teams who have the cash to pay Hardy $15+ million a year, and they have high draft picks, but they have giant holes at QB.  Folks have been suggesting he Raiders for months, but the Raiders don't have a QB.  Why trade for an expensive DE, when you can pick a game breaker of a WR at their pick (Watkins) who makes whoever you have a QB better?  This is still an offense first league.  As we've personally experienced, you MUST have a QB before you're successful in the NFL.

 

If Gettleman can get a deal worked out for Hardy to remain a Panther, and we're still able to take care of our major FAs, then he needs to be given the keys to the dang city.  If he's able to tag and trade Hardy and get us good value, then he's probably going to get knighted by the Queen of England (that's how dubious I am of the tag & trade at this point).

 

TL:DR - I don't see a market for a tagged Hardy.  Better off keeping his production while we cut in other places.  If he's moved and we get value, welcome to the knighthood Sir Gettleman.

[carolina-chuck]

It's not going to be 8 a year, Kruger got that last season. Hardy is going to get a lot more then Kruger ever dreamed of getting. 

was joking

[MtnJax]

The information about that offer came last "offseason"....not during this past season.

I was under the impression that Gettleman didn't talk to anyone other than FA about contracts last year because he wanted to evaluate. I remember hearing Lafell git shutdown about extension talks and thought Hardy was the same way

[MadHatter]

I was under the impression that Gettleman didn't talk to anyone other than FA about contracts last year because he wanted to evaluate. I remember hearing Lafell git shutdown about extension talks and thought Hardy was the same way

 

I heard the story about the $8M offer being rejected before last offseason....it may have actually been under Hurney's watch.

 

I just know that it was definitely prior to this past season.

[heel31ok]

Quick- how common are tag and trades in the NFL?

Don't bet on that happening.

Sometimes you just have to laugh!

[MtnJax]

I heard the story about the $8M offer being rejected before last offseason....it may have actually been under Hurney's watch.

I just know that it was definitely prior to this past season.

Gotcha. I only remember hearing it mid season from Jensen then Hardy saying they had no contact

Just need to get this poo over with

[MadHatter]

Gotcha. I only remember hearing it mid season from Jensen then Hardy saying they had no contact

Just need to get this poo over with

 

Agreed.

 

I love Hardy's play on the field.  So, I am torn over this situation.  Given a salary cap and CJ's already big number, I am nervous about locking up a ridiculously high portion of our cap in the DE position. 

 

I will trust Gettlemen to make the right decision.

[DelhommesTheMan]

It really depends on a teams value of a DE like Hardy.  If Alex Smith was traded for a 2nd rounder, no reason we cant get a first for Hardy, I wouldn't even move him for anything less than a first rounder, not even a question.  If we are planning to move him lets hope there is a team in the mid to late first round, or someone who has a second first rounder that's willing to part with it.  No team in the top 10 will do it it makes no sense financially.  Teams like the Rams or the Browns would be the first teams i approach.  Than you have to figure a team that will trade for him would have to have a 4-3 run defense which only include  Dallas Cowboys, Atlanta Falcons, Oakland Raiders, Minnesota Vikings, Chicago Bears, Denver Broncos,New Orleans Saints, Cincinnati Bengals, Jacksonville Jaguars, St. Louis Rams, Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Seattle Seahawks, Miami Dolphins and the New York Giants.  Its not gonna be easy, and i would bet Hardy is here next year tag or extension.

[sml1950]

My Hardy analysis:

For any team, it's almost impossible to have 2 DEs signed to what are essentially max contracts. Everyone wants to keep Hardy but does it make sense in when we are already cap challenged and Cam is coming up next year. Does it make sense to tag him for one year and try to make a run. Does it make sense to let him go without current compensation and only the possibility of a future compensetory pick. This is where Gman makes his money and sets to foundation for the future of the franchise.

The puzzle is being put together:

1. A number of contracts have been restructured sooner than necessary to create additional cap room.

2. Cornerstones of the team are retiring/being marginalized. This sets the stage for Cam/Luke to assend to the main leadership.

3. Hardy has implied that he wants more than CJ. This won't happen here, but he still holds the key to the state of the franchise going forward. We CANNOT franchise him and keep him for one year. We still have some of the left over cap remanants of the hell we went thru with Peppers. However, we have to take the risk of tagging him for the ultimate benefit it could provide.

The franchise tag process:

1. We give Hardy non-exclusive tag. At this time we have to reserve the tag amount against cap.

2. Hardy signs tag, which he says he will do. The tag becomes fully guaranteed and his agent is allowed to immediately begin negotiations with other teams.

3. When he finds a contract which is acceptable, we have the option of matching it exactly ( no poison pills are allowed) , getting 2 first round picks if we don't want to lose him, or taking the best we can negotiate. If a trade is made, he goes completely off our books and we recover the tag amount for salarary cap purposes.

4. If he can't find an acceptable contract he can play under the tag and be a FA again next year. This is a distinct possibility with 2 other young DEs (Johnson/Bennet) as well as, good older ones in Tuck/Allen. However, if he realizes that the market is not what he thought and he wants to reduce the injury risk situation, we have a second bite at a new contract.

My Perfect Storm: Jacksonville Jacksonville Jacksonvile

1. They have $50 in cap space

2. They run a 4-3 and need a DE (2 if they release Babin)

3. With a new owner/coach they are looking to restart the franchise and put people in the empty seats.

4. They will take a QB with their first pick and get their get their young, proven DE with their second (no. 39).

5. Would the 39 pick be acceptable compensation for Gman, I don't think so. But instead of additional picks,he proposes taking Blackmon. If Jville is doing housecleaning (including possibly MJD) they may be willing to wipe their handes of him. He is still suspended and his career is hanging by a thread, but a change of senery may be what he needs and we get a former top ten receiver on the cheap.

Somebody slap me and wake me up. Now with Blackmon and the extra 39 pick, the draft becomes more exciting. With this exta currency we can afford to move around truely get the BPA. Additionally, we now have the cap space to sign a Tuck/Allen to a 2/3 year contact for half of Hardy and sign Gano, Mitchell and maybe Captain to multi-year contracts.