Charlotte's Front Office Dysfunction

[carpanfan96]

So, you think we came out winners when we traded away Tyson Chandler for Diop, Najera, and Carroll, claiming it was a salary-shedding move, only except we took on more salary over more years in return?

 

Yup, Higgins should be GM of the year, every year.

 

For taking on those horrible contracts, Higgins should have gotten at least two future first round picks, if not three. One of worst trades I've ever seen. It's like an NBA 2k14 trade with trade override turned on. 

[Proudiddy]

For taking on those horrible contracts, Higgins should have gotten at least two future first round picks, if not three. One of worst trades I've ever seen. It's like an NBA 2k14 trade with trade override turned on. 

 

Exactly.  No doubt, Mark Cuban had to be slapping himself thinking he would wake up from that dream. 

 

Not only did we not communicate well with players prior to Cho, we also seemed to take pride in holding the mantle as the dumbest and easiest to manipulate front office in the NBA.

 

Oh yeah, and when you consider they finally won the chip that year after getting Chandler, we should've gotten at least three or four first rounders, lol.

[carpanfan96]

Exactly.  No doubt, Mark Cuban had to be slapping himself thinking he would wake up from that dream. 

 

Not only did we not communicate well with players prior to Cho, we also seemed to take pride in holding the mantle as the dumbest and easiest to manipulate front office in the NBA.

 

Oh yeah, and when you consider they finally won the chip that year after getting Chandler, we should've gotten at least three or four first rounders, lol.

 

 

Yep, even if you ignore what Tyson brought to that team. That trade gave them a ton of flexibility in making other moves. 

 

 

Then what Higgins said about Dampier's contract...   

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5377055

You have to consider that contract is probably one of the most valuable contracts in the league," Bobcats general manager Rod Higgins said. "The flexibility is the beautiful part of having Erick's deal, maybe not so much for Erick himself as a player, but for the franchise itself."

 

 

 

Then add to that, the team ended up waiving Dampier and not trading him and before all of that mess they turned down the Toronto deal which was Diaw and Chandler for Calderon and Reggie Evans. 

 

On Monday, Chandler believed he was headed to Toronto with Bobcats teammate Boris Diaw and Phoenix's Leandro Barbosa in a proposed three-team deal with the Raptors and Suns. The Bobcats had agreed to trade Chandler and Diaw to Toronto for Jose Calderon and Reggie Evans as part of the Raptors' Hedo Turkoglu-for-Barbosa swap with the Suns.

[Proudiddy]

LOL Hilarious.  I almost forgot about the Toronto debacle.  Not that that was by accident, I think intended to erase it from my memory, lol.

 

So, in summary:

 

Rejected:

Chandler, Diaw

 

for

 

Calderon, Evans

 

...

 

Accepted:

Chandler

 

for

 

Dampier (waived), Carroll, Diop, and Najera, whose contracts we just got out from under. 

 

If the whole point was to acquire Damp's contract, and then you waive him, what was the point?  LOL.  I seriously asked at the time if Higgins was mentally disabled.  It defied common sense.  At least in the Toronto deal, we would've been bringing in quality NBA players who have started and/or logged big minnutes and played well for playoff teams.

[carpanfan96]

LOL Hilarious.  I almost forgot about the Toronto debacle.  Not that that was by accident, I think intended to erase it from my memory, lol.

 

So, in summary:

 

Rejected:

Chandler, Diaw

 

for

 

Calderon, Evans

 

...

 

Accepted:

Chandler

 

for

 

Dampier (waived), Carroll, Diop, and Najera, whose contracts we just got out from under. 

 

If the whole point was to acquire Damp's contract, and then you waive him, what was the point?  LOL.  I seriously asked at the time if Higgins was mentally disabled.  It defied common sense.  At least in the Toronto deal, we would've been bringing in quality NBA players who have started and/or logged big minnutes and played well for playoff teams.

 

 

 

Do you remember why they rejected the deal? It was because Larry Brown didn't like Calderon as a point guard for his team. As well Calderon had a clause in his contract that bumped his salary upon him being traded. 

[Proudiddy]

Do you remember why they rejected the deal? It was because Larry Brown didn't like Calderon as a point guard for his team. As well Calderon had a clause in his contract that bumped his salary upon him being traded. 

 

Yeah, which is yet another reason Higgins pissed me off at the time.

 

If you're supposed to be the GM, yes, you get the coach's opinion on potential moves, but he shouldn't be the deciding factor, especially when considering production across various coaches' systems and salary. 

 

Larry wanted guys that only worked in his system, and it was a very short-sighted perspective to have.  IIRC, he was responsible for getting Chandler, but then didn't care for him because he's so anal, and then decided he had no use for him and demanded the Theo Ratliff trade, lol.  I also read somewhere that despite being considered "coach's pet," Felton ended up turning down our extension offer we gave during the season, and ended up going to the Knicks on a lesser contract due in large part to Larry.  Then, as you mentioned, we hold onto Diaw (another Larry pet), because Calderon wasn't a Larry-type of guy, and then trade Chandler (occupying Larry's doghouse), for career scrubs with a disgusting amount of incoming salary.

 

Just another example out of many of how inept and directionless our front office has been.

[carpanfan96]

Yeah, which is yet another reason Higgins pissed me off at the time.

 

If you're supposed to be the GM, yes, you get the coach's opinion on potential moves, but he shouldn't be the deciding factor, especially when considering production across various coaches' systems and salary. 

 

Larry wanted guys that only worked in his system, and it was a very short-sighted perspective to have.  IIRC, he was responsible for getting Chandler, but then didn't care for him because he's so anal, and then decided he had no use for him and demanded the Theo Ratliff trade, lol.  I also read somewhere that despite being considered "coach's pet," Felton ended up turning down our extension offer we gave during the season, and ended up going to the Knicks on a lesser contract due in large part to Larry.  Then, as you mentioned, we hold onto Diaw (another Larry pet), because Calderon wasn't a Larry-type of guy, and then trade Chandler (occupying Larry's doghouse), for career scrubs with a disgusting amount of incoming salary.

 

Just another example out of many of how inept and directionless our front office has been.

 

 

Since we've been on the Higgins talk in here, I'll mention why I still think he has control of the front office in trade's and signings. While Cho is in control of the draft.

 

The players that are here, don't fit together. Kemba, Hendo, MKG, McRoberts and Jefferson don't fit together. If you're going to run Clifford's system, you need a Jefferson type of player in the middle and McRoberts to be the stretch 4. 

 

However, Kemba and Hendo don't fit the team if you've got MKG playing. Then if you've got a shooter at 3, then Kemba doesn't fit the system. Cho and Higgins outside of Jefferson don't seem to be on the same page with drafting and FA signings. There was no point in bringing back Hendo to start, he doesn't fit the system with MKG here. 

 

The system that Clifford runs needs 5 things in the starting lineup to work.

 

 

1. Low post machine = got that in Jefferson

2. Stretch 4 with ball handling and passing ability = Got that in McRoberts

3. Pass first PG, capable of knocking down open threes = Don't have that in Kemba, he's more of a 2 guard....

4. Glue Guy at either the 2 or 3. = MKG is better at it then Hendo, so MKG goes here..

5. Another deep threat at the other position. = Nothing in the starting lineup at all for this.

 

 

 

This is why the team is so inconsistent at winning, they don't have the players to play this system consistently.  

[Guest Dark Knight]

Yea, actually I would have. I think the next two FA periods are much more interesting and signing Jefferson to go along with Kemba, Hendo and company is only going to lead to the 7th or 8th seed and a first round sweep. That's the max ceiling of this team without a centerpiece superstar.

There's no point in building that again, the Bobcats have already done it. The reason they blew the team up was to build a better team. The point of bringing in Cho was to build the team almost completely through the draft, then complement players once you get a building block.

All the Bobcats did by signing Jefferson was commit to being another marginal average team capable of making the playoffs as the 8th seed.

With a top 5 pick, the team at least had the shot of getting a centerpiece to build around.

As for the Zeller trade, that's the latest rumor out of Boston and NBA editors.

The Bobcats have drafted 4 players in the top 9 in the last 3 seasons. They have a top 10 pick from Detroit coming. How many years do you want to tank & keep piling up top picks?

Even without Jefferson there's almost no chance Parker, Wiggins, or Embiid land here.

Jefferson is a top 20 player in the NBA this year. There's nobody better Charlotte could lure here this off season.

[Proudiddy]

Since we've been on the Higgins talk in here, I'll mention why I still think he has control of the front office in trade's and signings. While Cho is in control of the draft.

 

The players that are here, don't fit together. Kemba, Hendo, MKG, McRoberts and Jefferson don't fit together. If you're going to run Clifford's system, you need a Jefferson type of player in the middle and McRoberts to be the stretch 4. 

 

However, Kemba and Hendo don't fit the team if you've got MKG playing. Then if you've got a shooter at 3, then Kemba doesn't fit the system. Cho and Higgins outside of Jefferson don't seem to be on the same page with drafting and FA signings. There was no point in bringing back Hendo to start, he doesn't fit the system with MKG here. 

 

The system that Clifford runs needs 5 things in the starting lineup to work.

 

 

1. Low post machine = got that in Jefferson

2. Stretch 4 with ball handling and passing ability = Got that in McRoberts

3. Pass first PG, capable of knocking down open threes = Don't have that in Kemba, he's more of a 2 guard....

4. Glue Guy at either the 2 or 3. = MKG is better at it then Hendo, so MKG goes here..

5. Another deep threat at the other position. = Nothing in the starting lineup at all for this.

 

Ehhh, but how much of that is determined by players that were drafted versus players we signed or traded for?

 

McBob was brought in via trade, and we weren't raped, so I assumed that would be Cho.  Then again, we got him with Hakim Warrick, who was also traded for earlier that season, so it could also be assumed that was another move lacking real vision, and then McBob was another patch up move done after the fact.

 

Jefferson was a FA signee.

 

MKG, Kemba, and Hendo were all draft picks, although Hendo was re-signed when we could've let him go. 

 

So who is doing what?  Who knows?  I just know trades have been drastically better since we got Cho.  Draft picks, better, but still more misses than clear hits. 

 

Kemba is the only true hit so far.

 

But, as you said, the clear pattern is that there is no pattern.  So, I assume that means a lot of opinions are being voiced in the war room when there is a decision to be made, and thus, the moves reflect that.  There isn't one voice deferred to, nor is there one defined vision for the roster.  So, moves are made without any clear carryover from one to the other.

 

IMO, the only pieces we should absolutely keep are Kemba and Al.  See what you can upgrade with all of the other pieces.  Kemba and Al can work with almost any other pieces brought in at the 2 through 4, but that's just my opinion.

 

[carpanfan96]

Ehhh, but how much of that is determined by players that were drafted versus players we signed or traded for?

 

McBob was brought in via trade, and we weren't raped, so I assumed that would be Cho.  Then again, we got him with Hakim Warrick, who was also traded for earlier that season, so it could also be assumed that was another move lacking real vision, and then McBob was another patch up move done after the fact.

 

Jefferson was a FA signee.

 

MKG, Kemba, and Hendo were all draft picks, although Hendo was re-signed when we could've let him go. 

 

So who is doing what?  Who knows?  I just know trades have been drastically better since we got Cho.  Draft picks, better, but still more misses than clear hits. 

 

Kemba is the only true hit so far.

 

But, as you said, the clear pattern is that there is no pattern.  So, I assume that means a lot of opinions are being voiced in the war room when there is a decision to be made, and thus, the moves reflect that.  There isn't one voice deferred to, nor is there one defined vision for the roster.  So, moves are made without any clear carryover from one to the other.

 

IMO, the only pieces we should absolutely keep are Kemba and Al.  See what you can upgrade with all of the other pieces.  Kemba and Al can work with almost any other pieces brought in at the 2 through 4, but that's just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

I don't even see a reason to keep Kemba, he's not consistent enough with his deep shot or enough of a passer. Jefferson is up there in age and luckily he's not built on athleticism, but he'll likely experience a drop off because of his minutes played. 

 

 

I see no value with this team at all long term, everything I see with the current roster make up outside of the potential upsides of MKG, Zeller and Biz scream short term...lets make season 1 of the Hornets good then rebuild again. 

 

Especially if they are looking at already trading Zeller, MKG and Biz. The three best prospects they have upside wise. 

 

 

 

That seriously screams lets make another dumb short term decision again like we did in building the 2010 team.

 

 

 

As for the team being built, I just see a bunch of HIggins type moves surrounded by Cho draft picks. I'm sorry, but making the playoffs as the 8th seed isn't going to change my mind about Jefferson, it was the dumbest decision the team has made. Trying to trade away most of your assets to move up from the 8th seed to the 6th seed also screams desperation to me.

 

 

 

 

 

You build through the draft as a small market team until you get it right, if you mess up acknowledge it and start over.  Going through this pointless cycle of making the playoffs as an eighth seed and then being bad for 4-5 years followed by another 8th seed is stupid. 

 

 

Go for broke, at least you know you tried to bring a championship to your city, doing what the Bobcats are doing now isn't ever going to bring a finals appearance or anything close to that. 

[carpanfan96]

The Bobcats have drafted 4 players in the top 9 in the last 3 seasons. They have a top 10 pick from Detroit coming. How many years do you want to tank & keep piling up top picks?

Even without Jefferson there's almost no chance Parker, Wiggins, or Embiid land here.

Jefferson is a top 20 player in the NBA this year. There's nobody better Charlotte could lure here this off season.

 

You keep drafting till you get it right, Jefferson isn't a top 20 NBA player. Heck the Bobcats have to completely change the way they defend the pick and roll to protect and hide Jefferson on the defensive end. It makes them more susceptible to 3pt shots and clean drives off of the pick as a result. 

 

 

The chance, even if it was remote, at Wiggins, Parker or Embiid is worth more then Jefferson can ever bring to this team. Unless Love decides to come here for less then the Max just to play next to him. 

 

 

Jefferson and Kemba without a Durant or LBJ level player is at best a 6-8th seed and a first round exit, no matter how you build it. 

 

 

The point is to compete and try to dethrone Miami and Indiana. Not build a playoff tackling dummy. 

[PantherBrew]

 

The point is to compete and try to dethrone Miami and Indiana. Not build a playoff tackling dummy. 

 

I think the point about Indiana is that they didn't start with a super star.  They got solid pieces and built them into a Defensive juggernaut and developed Paul George into a superstar. 

[RoaringRiot]

Good analysis, guys.  But now I'm depressed after reading this.  

[Carl Spackler]

The amount of stupidity in this thread and this board as a whole never ceases to appall me.