Better player: Charles Johnson or Greg Hardy?

[Match.com]

Hardy. Hands down

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[MadHatter]

So the consensus is the CJ is by far the better player. Wonder if this would be diff if it were Hardy under contract and CJ headed to free agency....I bet it would.

[panther4life]

I'm in the CJ crowd

[AKPantherFan]

Did Johnson restructure his deal last year?

[pantherclaw]

Hardy is more versatile being able to play both inside and out as well as he does.

I feel CJ is the better DE at the moment, at the top of his game.

Hardy hasn't even seen his ceiling yet.

[ThunderKatt]

Well looking at the numbers which are raw:  

Charles Johnson had a sack in every game we played against Seattle, S.F. and got injured in the N.E. game.  Getting tackles against those 2 teams are just as important, plus i don't think he was healthy after that N.E. game.  He also had sacks in all but 3 games that he completed.  He didn't get a sack in the Buffalo game and that was the 2nd game of the season, but before that injury he was getting a sack in every game which was a  6 game streak.  He didn't have many tackles this year but he only played 13 regular season games and ended with 11 sacks and 31 tackles.  

 

Hardy on the other hand, had his best games when Johnson was active, he had 1.07 sacks per game when Charles was in the game and 3.7 tackles per game, but when Johnson was out hardy at 0.5 sacks per game and 2.6 tackles.  That's a huge drop off.  Hardy had 8 games with no sacks and the largest streak was 2 games with a sack which mirrors his season start with 2 games and no sacks.  His sacks look like this first 2 games 0 sacks; third game 3 sacks, 4th and 5th games 0 sacks; 6th and 7th games 1 sack each; 8th and 9th games no sacks; 10th game 1 sack; 11th game 0 sacks; 12th game 1 sack; 13th game 0 sacks; 14th game 1 sack; 15th game 3 sacks and 16th game 4 sacks.  The teams that would have proven his elite worth would have been making some noise against Seattle, Buffalo (who were hot at the beginning of the season), Arizona, and S.F.  

 

Plus hardy had 11.5 sacks in the 1st half vs C.J. 4 which all came after the 2 minute warning, 2.5 vs. CJ's 7 in the 2nd half with both 2.5 in the final 2 minutes.  The areas where you want to see sacks are at your own 20 because that is when it's time to make a stand and he only had 2 sacks and at the opponents 20 you want to get sacks to force a safety or make the situation uncomfortable and he only had 1 sack there.

 

So to me Charles is the player that the line feeds from and is the most disruptive player on the line but in the games Hardy shows up, he sets the tone early and closings the game at the end.  However Johnson consistently makes plays throughout the season and from the 1st 2 minute warning throughout the whole 2nd half.  Hardy normally gets missing in the middle of the game when it's a battle for field position.

 

Just what I have noticed.

[brandon_87]

I'd say hardy because of how versatile he is, and also just wish CJ was paid like a regular DE instead of that bullshit contract he got, cap #s make CJ just look bad cuz he doesn't produce close to what he should for what he is being paid for

[ThunderKatt]

This year C.J. is the 4th highest paid de which is 5 mil less than Peppers and right ahead of Seattles 2 de.  He isn't even up a mil on each of them plus Seattle has 3 de's in the top 15 pay bracket.  So C.J. isn't paid much more than most productive de's. and he isn't average.  What is the average de's numbers for last year?  C.J. had more sacks than top of the list J.P. and tackles, 1 less ff but he has a fr.  Peppers leads in Pass Def with 3 and 1 int. which C.J. doesn't have any.  I think the Panthers got what they paid for without the large contract.

I'd say hardy because of how versatile he is, and also just wish CJ was paid like a regular DE instead of that bullshit contract he got, cap #s make CJ just look bad cuz he doesn't produce close to what he should for what he is being paid for

 

[micnificent28]

I do think CJ is more likely to be on his game. He is the more solid overall player. But,what hardy bring is more valuable to a team scheme wise. He gives you the option to bring in more pass rushers or run  defenders without losing one or the other. The guy bulked up to 300 plus last season and really didn't drop off in terms of production. He is the freak talent that teams covet that allows you to be flexible with your scheme. He's the lineman you want on the field vs spread no huddle or any other situation. What he brings to the team in terms of name sake and branding as well is big for a small market franchise. I think. he is already better know by the media than CJ. I think we might be the only ones who calls CJ big money. Where as even gruden calls Hardy the kracken.

He brings image and flair to an otherwise bunch of lunch pale guys. His is what you look for when you draft a DE. I can't say enuff that hardy is more valuable to this team.

[ThunderKatt]

You had a good argument until you brought up Gruden.  That guy is a sleeze but a motivator no doubt but Hardy is good don't get it wrong, I like the numbers that Seattle have invested in their ends which is 15 mil total, I think Greg is worth about 6.5 but no more and that's using Seattle's numbers as a lithmus which is only 2 mil from J.P.'s monster contract.  They get 2 for the price of 1 virtually.

I do think CJ is more likely to be on his game. He is the more solid overall player. But,what hardy bring is more valuable to a team scheme wise. He gives you the option to bring in more pass rushers or run  defenders without losing one or the other. The guy bulked up to 300 plus last season and really didn't drop off in terms of production. He is the freak talent that teams covet that allows you to be flexible with your scheme. He's the lineman you want on the field vs spread no huddle or any other situation. What he brings to the team in terms of name sake and branding as well is big for a small market franchise. I think. he is already better know by the media than CJ. I think we might be the only ones who calls CJ big money. Where as even gruden calls Hardy the kracken.

He brings image and flair to an otherwise bunch of lunch pale guys. His is what you look for when you draft a DE. I can't say enuff that hardy is more valuable to this team.

 

[lovelett]

I have always liked CJ, just doing his thing, not calling attention to himself. Also as was said before he has gotten paid and works as hard as ever.

[jptaylor84]

Hardy against good tackles equals less a player!

Hardy against the failcons and douche tackles equals amazing pass rusher!

No coincidence he succeeds against inferior opponents, let him walk I won't cry il miss all his talk but someone else can replace his ability on the field.

Just get the best deal for the panthers possible and move on! Signing this guy holds us back three players from competing that's a fact.

[ThunderKatt]

Hardy gone equals $9mill in cap savings.

[Snake]

CJ had been more consisted and a better player with double teams. Hardy struggles when he is the main guy. CJ has taken a lot of pressure off hardy in the pass rush. In the run game both are really good at sealing the edge.