Joe Person's Panthers free agency update

[Pantherman]

Here is the bottomline. Greg is good and I will admit. But Hardy is be coming a greedy SOB. If he would take a 6 year 50 million and 40 million g. Then that would help us big time. But no the guy wants to kill us. He knows we have cap issues and he cares nothing about it. Just like any player know days. All about the money. So let him walk or trade him. Don't care how it is done. Just get it done ASAP.  As of right now I would settle for Raiders 2nd overall pick this year and next for Hardy. Hardy is well worth it. We have other guys to pay in the next few years. Hardy as of right now ain't in those plans. Ship him off to where ever and don't give our division foes any chance at him unless they are willing to give up a 1st and 2nd round for him. Bottomline good bye Hardy. Enjoy your money and losing every year.

[Guest]

CJ money is irrelevant. The relevant number is what other teams would be willing to pay Hardy.

We could find ourselves in a similar situation to the Texans where with Mario Williams. Not saying Hardy will get a six year $100 million deal. But it is possible that one of the teams with enough cap space, with a need for a pass rusher, could throw a ton of money his way and more than Gettleman may be willing to give him.

With teams like the Browns (?), Bucs, Falcons, Jaguars, Raiders etc with a need and/or money to burn, it wouldn't surprise me to see them offer Hardy what he wants.

First question has to be, is Hardy worth more money than CJ is getting paid? And second question is, even if the team can afford it, should they with what deals are coming up soon (Cam, Kuechly etc)?

[Pantherman]

We could find ourselves in a similar situation to the Texans where with Mario Williams. Not saying Hardy will get a six year $100 million deal. But it is possible that one of the teams with enough cap space, with a need for a pass rusher, could throw a ton of money his way and more than Gettleman may be willing to give him.

With teams like the Browns (?), Bucs, Falcons, Jaguars, Raiders etc with a need and/or money to burn, it wouldn't surprise me to see them offer Hardy what he wants.

First question has to be, is Hardy worth more money than CJ is getting paid? And second question is, even if the team can afford it, should they with what deals are coming up soon (Cam, Kuechly etc)?

 

Is Hardy worth CJ money? No he isn't. CJ ain't even worth CJ money. No DE ain't worth that kind of money. The only position worth the kind of money is the QB position. But let Hardy walk. Yea Williams got the money he wants. But since Williams left the Texans he has not been in the playoffs since. Williams will never sniff the playoffs so long as he remains with bills. This same thing could happen to Hardy if he goes the Jags or Raiders. So let him walk or be traded so he can get his money.

[Happy Panther]

 But Hardy is becoming a greedy SOB. 

How so?

[Jangler]

Can't blame Hardy for getting all he can, this will probably be his biggest contract, can't believe people trash him for wanting to get paid. He if stays for less, cool...if not, then "fug him" he's the enemy.

[Pantherman]

How so?

 

Because a lot of know Hardy got half of his sacks or 8 of the 15 against a bad Falcons and Saints oline in the final 2 games of the season. Hardy deserves a good contract and I ain't denying that. But him want to kill our cap and wanting a 6 year 100 million is a bit greedy. He wants to win, but want a big contract to. You can't have you cake and eat it to. Either take a decent 6 year 50 million 40 million g. contract help you team out and have a chance at a possible SB in the next few years. That or walk and get you money and end up having a losing season every year with a crappy team. Bottomline Hardy knows this team can't afford a huge contract that he wants. You don't build a winning team by putting 25% of you cap on one guy unless he is your QB. Hardy just trying to get greedy and forcing us to choose. Yes the deserves a good contract. But not for he is asking for.

[Pantherman]

Can't blame Hardy for getting all he can, this will probably be his biggest contract, can't believe people trash him for wanting to get paid. He if stays for less, cool...if not, then "fug him" he's the enemy.

 

I ain't by no means trying to trash the guy. He deserves a good contract. But not no 5-6 80 million. 6 years 50 million 40 million g. would be more in line of what we can afford what he really worth. Again the guy is a solid player, but he got his final 8 sacks against the 2 of the worse olines in the leagues. Falcons and Saints. If Falcons and Saints had a better oline. He most likely would have ended the season with 10-11 sacks at the most. Again not dogging the guy and saying he doesn't deserve a good contract. But not no 80 million for 6 years.

[PiratePanther189]

The one where CJ had 12.5 sacks and Hardy 11?

 

First of all, CJ got paid in July of 2011 after the lockout was lifted genius. His "contract year" was the 2010 season. How you can find this complicated escapes me.

 

Charles Johnson Pre-Contract Season (2010-2011): 51 tackles, 11.5 sacks, 1 FF

Greg Hardy Pre-Contract Season (2013-2014): 59 tackles, 15 sacks, 1 FF

 

Hardy had the better season before his contract than CJ had before he signed his. I posted:

 

 

I'd actually say he's had better production...and the fact that we're having this conversation when Hardy's actually had a better season than CJ had pre-contract proves how much of a moron Hurney is for paying CJ that much money to begin with.

 

This is not a difficult thinking exercise.

[ThunderKatt]

Hardy had argualy the best front 7 in the league, but C.J. had the middle to bottom of the pack front 7 and near the bottom of the pack front 4.  There's a big difference.

First of all, CJ got paid in July of 2011 after the lockout was lifted genius. His "contract year" was the 2010 season. How you can find this complicated escapes me.

 

Charles Johnson Pre-Contract Season (2010-2011): 51 tackles, 11.5 sacks, 1 FF

Greg Hardy Pre-Contract Season (2013-2014): 59 tackles, 15 sacks, 1 FF

 

Hardy had the better season before his contract than CJ had before he signed his. I posted:

 

 

This is not a difficult thinking exercise.

 

[PiratePanther189]

Hardy had argualy the best front 7 in the league, but C.J. had the middle to bottom of the pack front 7 and near the bottom of the pack front 4.  There's a big difference.

 

You think a completey assumptive detail like that is going to make a difference in a contract negotiation? These talks are about individual numbers and whether the management of the team is smart enough to decipher what numbers are skewed and what aren't. CJ's contract is relevant because that contract helped set the benchmark that has forced teams to start overpaying their great but not elite d-line talent, and it's begun happening all over the league. Now, the Panthers have to live through Hurney's mistake by going through the same exercise they just went through 2 years ago with someone who has a lot of leverage by saying he had a BETTER individual season than CJ did when he was being signed.

 

Based off of the "going rate" that Hurney helped create, Hardy deserves a CJ sized contract. Based off of logic, he can politely take his happy ass out to Oakland.

 

That's all I was saying. It's really not something that's worth arguing about.

[ThunderKatt]

It absolutely does matter and the point is going to come out how Hardy numbers dropped when Charles wasn't in the game plus how his presence is absent in most of the 3rd and 4th quarter until the 2 minute warning.  I sure do think it matters.

You think a completey assumptive detail like that is going to make a difference in a contract negotiation? These talks are about individual numbers and whether the management of the team is smart enough to decipher what numbers are skewed and what aren't. CJ's contract is relevant because that contract helped set the benchmark that has forced teams to start overpaying their great but not elite d-line talent, and it's begun happening all over the league. Now, the Panthers have to live through Hurney's mistake by going through the same exercise they just went through 2 years ago with someone who has a lot of leverage by saying he had a BETTER individual season than CJ did when he was being signed.

 

Based off of the "going rate" that Hurney helped create, Hardy deserves a CJ sized contract. Based off of logic, he can politely take his happy ass out to Oakland.

 

That's all I was saying. It's really not something that's worth arguing about.

 

[SauceBoss]

That moment with the Raiders sign Hardy and draft Clowney...

[PiratePanther189]

It absolutely does matter and the point is going to come out how Hardy numbers dropped when Charles wasn't in the game plus how his presence is absent in most of the 3rd and 4th quarter until the 2 minute warning.  I sure do think it matters.

 

He broke the team sack record and you're crediting it to everyone else?

 

CJ had a sub par season before we paid him in 11 and we pay him 72 million. You really think Hardy doesn't have the upper hand right now. HE BROKE. THE. TEAM. SACK RECORD.

 

The entire point I've been trying to make is Hardy has the upper hand here, it's either pay him and trade him or let him leave because we simply cannot afford him. And it's Marty Hurney's fault. I really didn't think that would be widely discarded because it's true.

 

[ThunderKatt]

who was on the line with Charles; Everet Brown, Tyler Brayton, Nick Hayden, Ed Johnson, Derek Landri, Louis Leonard, Andre Neblett?  Not quite your the same cast that Hardy has in; C.J. Star, Short, Edwards, Addison, Alexander, C.C.  There's a big difference.

He broke the team sack record and you're crediting it to everyone else?

 

CJ had a sub par season before we paid him in 11 and we pay him 72 million. You really think Hardy doesn't have the upper hand right now. HE BROKE. THE. TEAM. SACK RECORD.