The NFL - Welfare Queens?

[intangiblejohnny]

Yes

Do you understand the ramfications of your proposed idea?

[EightyNine]

Do you understand the ramfications of your proposed idea?

Yes

[panthers55]

Most Protestant religions subscribe to this dogma. Catholocism is much different. There are passages in the KJ Bible that favor both. It just depends on what a particular church wants to proclaim.

Catholicism is not that different from Protestant religions. Where do you think they came from.  Yeah, the catholic church.  

[panthers55]

How is this not in the tinderbox yet?

In the offseason most topics end up here since traffic is lighter.

[Jangler]

Since this has become a hot tinderbox topic, let me add religion to the equation as well.  I read on here that come judgement day that folks will be judged by what they do and how they act.

Maybe I am wrong but the overwhelming view held by most denominations of christianity is that you are saved and go to heaven by faith alone.  So all this discussion about works doesn't fit with the guiding principle.

 

Just saying......................

 

Just to answer the question...

James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Footnotes:

[EightyNine]

You a very misinformed, sir. Advocating economic regulation doesn't equate to socialism as for the majority of America's existence regulation has not only been present but it has been dominating. Eisenhower's New Deal lead to vast American prosperity and it was riddled with regulation.

Then came Reagen whose deregulation hurt the middle class and the lower class but it did not devestate them.

Then came Clinton who was a great President but with his support of NAFTA he helped to reduce the effect of the middle and lower classes further by allowing companies to move jobs to poor countries that worked for slave labor wages. This helped to cause the terrible inflation to minimum wage ratio we see today.

Then came GWB whose unprecedented deregulation formed the basis for the Enron disaster, the banking collapse, and the housing crisis.

I assure you I am not an anarchist. If I were why would I study our government as I do? Regulation is the exact opposite of anarchy.

Why would you resort to name calling in this discussion? Normally when people do that it means they have little of substance to say.

Please just research the facts I have presented to you using INDEPENDANT sources with no political agenda. You seem like a smart guy, don't let people tell you what to think, study and research until you reach your own conclusions.

Post script- I didn't say Capitalism was a failure merely that for it to succeed to it full potential it must be regulated appropriately.

I really dont agree with most of this^

I want to point out that you are incorrect on your assessment of the new deal. The New Deal was brought in by FDR, and it actually prolonged the depression. It was not until we cut government spending that you saw a recovery.

GWB did harm through regulation, not deregulation. The regulators forced lending companies to give loans to too many people who couldn't pay. This money ends up being subsidized and this is what caused the housing crisis.

The biggest cause of inflation is the printing of money. The Federal Reserve is an issue we could spend a lot of time talking about, but I'm sure you understand the harm that the Fed does, and the fact that government enables them to do such harm. Here is a link to give an idea on how ridiculous government spending is:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277873/bringing-budget-numbers-down-size-carrie-lukas

So since the government has proven that they wont spend the money efficiently or give us a balanced budget, I am not sure why you would be in favor of more government. It seems to me like as government grows to be more and more powerful, the more problems we have and the more debt we have.

[intangiblejohnny]

Catholicism is not that different from Protestant religions. Where do you think they came from. Yeah, the catholic church.

read my post on this thread where I refered the Catholic Church as the grandpa of Christianity.

But yes the Catholic Church is very different than many Protestant sects.

[Jangler]

How is this not in the tinderbox yet?

 

 

In the offseason most topics end up here since traffic is lighter.

 

also it has stayed pretty civil,

[intangiblejohnny]

I really dont agree with most of this^

I want to point out that you are incorrect on your assessment of the new deal. The New Deal was brought in by FDR, and it actually prolonged the depression. It was not until we cut government spending that you a recovery.

GWB did harm through regulation, not deregulation. The regulators forced lending companies to give loans to too many people who couldn't pay. This money ends up being subsidized and this is what caused the housing crisis.

The biggest cause of inflation is the printing of money. The Federal Reserve is an issue we could spend a lot of time talking about, but I'm sure you understand the harm that the Fed does, and the fact that government enables them to do such harm. Here is a link to give an idea on how ridiculous government spending is:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277873/bringing-budget-numbers-down-size-carrie-lukas

No personal, disrespect.

So since the government has proven that they wont spend the money efficiently or give us a balanced budget, I am not sure why you would be in favor of more government. It seems to me like as government grows to be more and more powerful, the more problems we have and the more debt we have.

I don't think I will rely on a uber conservative tea party propaganda site as a valid source of unbiased information. Though this does help explain where your point of view comes from.

Your right FDR came up with the New Deal and Eisenhower furthered the cause. The New Deal is studied in institutions of learning as the primary reason for recovery from the Depression. Maybe not so much in Tea Party fanatical Coch brothers funded literature.

Do you realize that GOP is responsible for the largest growth of the federal government since WW II? The deregulation of the energy and banking sectors directly led to the economic disaster of the 2000s.

Any reasonable economist will attest to that including Nobel Prize winners.

You should attempt to get your info from multiple unbiased sources instead of the corporate fueled scaremongers that terrify you into voting for their party.

Our largest gross increase in debt happened while GWB was at the helm.

No personal disrespect intended. I think we can all learn from each other.

[EightyNine]

I don't think I will rely on a uber conservative tea party propaganda site as a valid source of unbiased information. Though this does help explain where your point of view comes from.

Your right FDR came up with the New Deal and Eisenhower furthered the cause. The New Deal is studied in institutions of learning as the primary reason for recovery from the Depression. Maybe not so much in Tea Party fanatical Coch brothers funded literature.

Do you realize that GOP is responsible for the largest growth of the federal government since WW II? The deregulation of the energy and banking sectors directly led to the economic disaster of the 2000s.

Any reasonable economist will attest to that including Nobel Prize winners.

You should attempt to get your info from multiple unbiased sources instead of the corporate fueled scaremongers that terrify you into voting for their party.

Our largest gross increase in debt happened while GWB was at the helm.

No personal disrespect intended. I think we can all learn from each other.

I also think that there are reasonable economists who agree with me.

I don't think corporate fueled scaremongers terrify me into voting for their party. Those are the people I appose and those are the people who I think are using government to gain special privileges and advantages. That's what I want to prevent. They are the ones who want these regulations because they are the ones who actually gain from them.

Maybe you don't agree with the source I gave but you probably can agree that we are in a tremendous amount of debt, so that should be an indicator that the money is mismanaged.

You accused me before of name calling and you said you don't mean disrespect but you are coming pretty close to the borderline with some of your comments.

[intangiblejohnny]

I also think that there are reasonable economists who agree with me.

I don't think corporate fueled scaremongers terrify me into voting for their party. Those are the people I appose and those are the people who I think are using government to gain special privileges and advantages. That's what I want to prevent. They are the ones who want these regulations because they are the ones who actually gain from them.

You accused me before of name calling and you said you don't mean disrespect but you are coming pretty close to the borderline with some of your comments.

I apologize. It seems we both want the same end result though we diagree on the method.

I respect you for actually caring as apathy is the norm among most people today.

Thank you for the conversation. It was actually stimulating and I don't get much of that where I live.

[panthers55]

 

Just to answer the question...

James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Footnotes:

 

I agree with you that faith and works are intertwined if you follow the example of Jesus.  Still the question wasn't whether works should follow faith but whether you are saved by faith, works or both.  Nothing here says anything about needing to do works to receive salvation and that was my point.

[panthers55]

read my post on this thread where I refered the Catholic Church as the grandpa of Christianity.

But yes the Catholic Church is very different than many Protestant sects.

Having been raised a Catholic and having been a member of the Lutheran church, the Prostestant church and the Methodist church over several decades, I can assure you that you are wrong.  They share similar fundamental beliefs although they engage in some different rituals and have some different traditions. 

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/asktheexpert/jun01.html

 

Note that the catholic bible and the protestant bible differ in 7 of the 39 books of the old testament  but both share the new testament which for almost all denominations is where most of the beliefs and dogma originate.

[Panthro]

Protestant churches = grace

Catholicism = good works

 

thats the diff you guys are discussing.