Fox presser

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

We have the winner.

 

yeah fox rode manning to this point and when that failed and everybody turned to el jefe he did what we've seen him do countless times in carolina which is make the wrong call.  how are those two opinions incompatible in any way?  i mean we saw the exact same thing in 2005 with steve smith and in 2008 against the cardinals-he rode one philosophy or concept until it wasn't working any more and had no plan B so the team imploded in front of the entire country.

 

 

[ladypanther]

yeah fox rode manning to this point and when that failed and everybody turned to el jefe he did what we've seen him do countless times in carolina which is make the wrong call.  how are those two opinions incompatible in any way?  i mean we saw the exact same thing in 2005 with steve smith and in 2008 against the cardinals-he rode one philosophy or concept until it wasn't working any more and had no plan B so the team imploded in front of the entire country.

 

Agree.  This year and last year, in the playoffs, when Foxy had a game management decision to make, he blew it.  (Although I think nothing would have won the game for Denver this time. They looked unprepared.  Players seemed to believe their hype.)

 

Last year he took the playoff game out of Peyton's hands against Baltimore.  Decided to run out the clock for the tie rather than let Peyton try to win it. Said the Raven's comeback was an emotional blow to his team.  Foxy again was playing not to lose and what did he do?  Last year's decision was crazy...not to let his offense try to win the game. This year?  No adjustments and gave up on the offense which was the only thing that had gotten them to that point.  Not sure who all had input into the offensive preparation for this game but got to wonder why the O coordinator was not prepared to change things up.

 

[heel31ok]

It's the 3rd quarter and you have a 29 point deficit to make up... how much time came off the clock before the D got you the ball back? I'll tell you how long it was... 5+ precious minutes. 

 

The Broncos are on the Seahawks 38 yard line and there's 11:25 left in the 3rd quarter, so they're 26:25 away from losing the Superbowl... if not now, when?

 

By the time they get the ball back 5 mins have come off the clock and they're still in a 29 point hole, so is it time to start going for it on 4th down now? 

 

At this point the Seahawks are running the ball because they know the clock has become a factor, I guess Fox didn't get the memo. 

 

What was the 3rd down play on 3rd and 10 that lead to the punt on 4th and 11? It was a DRAW PLAY. So how many draw plays did they run? You don't really want me to go back and count, do you? Forget going for it on 4th down, Fox wasn't even going for it on 3rd down!

 

If you trust your defense enough to punt and get the ball back (5 mins later) when you have a 29 point deficit to make up in the 3rd quarter, why don't you trust them enough to go for it on 4th down and get you the ball back? 

 

There was 11:25 left in the 3rd quarter when Peyton last touched the ball, now there's 7:05 left, so more than a third of the 3rd quarter has gone by. At 7:05 we finally get the ball back in Peyton's hands and guess what... THEY RUN ANOTHER DRAW PLAY (that's two draw plays and a punt from the opponents 38 yard line while 5+ mins ticks off the clock).

 

I could keep going but I think I've made my point... any questions? 

made what point. They had 2 incomnpletion 3rd and 10 draw is a good change up at that pt. It didn't work Punt get ball back . Draw play again with the D expecting pass open up next to pass plays.too bad they fumble. With the D in Peytons face all day a draw slows that down and it did as they were starting to move before the fumble and then the next drive went for TD.

 You punt to try to pin the O deep.The only real success came after the draw plays so I guess there are alot of questions.

[CatMan72]

made what point. They had 2 incomnpletion 3rd and 10 draw is a good change up at that pt. It didn't work Punt get ball back . Draw play again with the D expecting pass open up next to pass plays.too bad they fumble. With the D in Peytons face all day a draw slows that down and it did as they were starting to move before the fumble and then the next drive went for TD. You punt to try to pin the O deep.The only real success came after the draw plays so I guess there are alot of questions.

So you acknowledge there was more than one draw play now? Sent from my DROID RAZR using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[heel31ok]

in a crucial moment on third down and you are behind on the scoreboard, punting means that the best chance you have for getting downfield is punting and the defense stopping the other team, forcing another three and out and a punt that may put you pretty close to where you were maybe picking up a few yards.

 

it shows no faith in your offense to move the ball the needed yardage. that's a confidence killer right there.

 

he had peyton manning...who was apparently the only real weapon on offense and the only reason they got to the superbowl and deep in the playoffs the last couple years...but he chose to stay within his comfort zone and put the ball back into the hands of the other team and pray that his defense would be able to stop them.

 

i've said this for the past couple years watching ron in year one and year two carry on that antiquated mindset of game management that says "a punt is a good play" believing that the "safe" decision was to put the ball back in the other team's hands and hope your defense could stop them and get you the ball back.

 

the problem with that is this and this is what i've been saying...the safest place for the ball to be is in your offenses hands...not the other offense, but yours. in clutch situations, esp. when it's not a home game, it is not safe for that ball to be in the other team's hands. also, the best chance you have to score is when the ball is in your hands, not the other teams. you might be able to get a pick 6. you might cause a fumble and score on the recovery. you might be able to stop the other team from moving the ball and put your team in good field position, but you can't count on that at all...in fact most of the time that's just not going to happen. if they don't score on you, they'll probably have to punt at some point and put you pretty close to back where you punted from...that is if they didn't convert a time or two and get a couple fresh set of downs. and you've succeeded in losing minutes and hurt your chances to come back.

 

it's a flawed mindset. punting in that situation may have been "by the book" but, as i also said on many times that book needs to be thrown out. fortunately, rivera decided the same thing.

i agree with some of that. That doesn't mean you  never punt in a situation like that. The Broncos in particular were struggling and a D stop does pick up the team and get momentum just as the O can when they can put togethjer a good drive and score. At that point Denver was dead in the water  and to miss a 4th and 11 could have done more damage to the confidence than putting it in the D's hands.they got the stop and made a few good plays before they fumbled.in the flow of the game the fumbled had way more to do with loss of momentum than the punt.They had time to score a couple of TD's and be in position to score a couple more in 4th.I just don't see the punt as a big deal nor the draw plays.they were certainly not the game killers some are making them out to be.

[heel31ok]

So you acknowledge there was more than one draw play now?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

i know of one i was just giving benefit of the doubt on the other.Either way they /it was not a big deal nor a game changer for the worse. nOr a sign of fox's inherent lack of coaching ability.like I said they needed to slow the rush and it seemed to work as they were able to complete some good passes after that and score a TD. The fumble after catch was a killer of momentum the draw plays were not.They were not really a factor as the D stopped seattle after the punt.even with the time off the clock there was plenty of time to score and get back into the game.

[CatMan72]

i know of one i was just giving benefit of the doubt on the other.Either way they /it was not a big deal nor a game changer for the worse. nOr a sign of fox's inherent lack of coaching ability.like I said they needed to slow the rush and it seemed to work as they were able to complete some good passes after that and score a TD. The fumble after catch was a killer of momentum the draw plays were not.They were not really a factor as the D stopped seattle after the punt.even with the time off the clock there was plenty of time to score and get back into the game.

What are your chances of converting on a 3rd and 10 draw?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[rayzor]

i agree with some of that. That doesn't mean you  never punt in a situation like that. The Broncos in particular were struggling and a D stop does pick up the team and get momentum just as the O can when they can put togethjer a good drive and score. At that point Denver was dead in the water  and to miss a 4th and 11 could have done more damage to the confidence than putting it in the D's hands.they got the stop and made a few good plays before they fumbled.in the flow of the game the fumbled had way more to do with loss of momentum than the punt.They had time to score a couple of TD's and be in position to score a couple more in 4th.I just don't see the punt as a big deal nor the draw plays.they were certainly not the game killers some are making them out to be.

punting should be one of the ladt things you do in that situation. 

 

and a draw play on third and ten? lol that's always dumb in that situation...but hey, that's foxball in a nutshell. 

 

we saw that kind of poo way too often when he was here. i'm just glad that it's in our history.

[rayzor]

What are your chances of converting on a 3rd and 10 draw?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

against the best defense in the league in the biggest game of the year and momentum is going in the other team's favor, but you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game and your offense has been breaking passing records all year...yeah, draw play isn't what i would call a bright or very aggreesive decision, which is exactly what is needed when you are in that situation and you're serious about your offense mounting a comeback.

 

sure, a draw play on third and ten when you are behind by a significant amount with time quickly running out is a bild move, but so would bringing a plastic knife to a gun fight. it just wouldn't be smart if you have any realistic hope of winning.

[CatMan72]

against the best defense in the league in the biggest game of the year and momentum is going in the other team's favor, but you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game and your offense has been breaking passing records all year...yeah, draw play isn't what i would call a bright or very aggreesive decision, which is exactly what is needed when you are in that situation and you're serious about your offense mounting a comeback. sure, a draw play on third and ten when you are behind by a significant amount with time quickly running out is a bild move, but so would bringing a plastic knife to a gun fight. it just wouldn't be smart if you have any realistic hope of winning.

LOL, Fox was trying to sneak into FG range down 29-0 in the 3rd quarter. Sent from my DROID RAZR using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[heel31ok]

against the best defense in the league in the biggest game of the year and momentum is going in the other team's favor, but you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game and your offense has been breaking passing records all year...yeah, draw play isn't what i would call a bright or very aggreesive decision, which is exactly what is needed when you are in that situation and you're serious about your offense mounting a comeback.

 

sure, a draw play on third and ten when you are behind by a significant amount with time quickly running out is a bild move, but so would bringing a plastic knife to a gun fight. it just wouldn't be smart if you have any realistic hope of winning.

that was the point I made at first.One of the best QB's was ineffective he wasn't sharp he had just thrown 2 straight incompletions Seattle was shutting him down and getting in his face.that was a great place to call a draw and with the D teeing off looking for the pass it was worth a try. It was way better than another incompletion that would have had a negative effect on the O. no the draw did not take away their chance to win and it has nothing to do with or is analogous with a plastic knife in a gunfight. That is just absurd and extreme.

[CatMan72]

that was the point I made at first.One of the best QB's was ineffective he wasn't sharp he had just thrown 2 straight incompletions Seattle was shutting him down and getting in his face.that was a great place to call a draw and with the D teeing off looking for the pass it was worth a try. It was way better than another incompletion that would have had a negative effect on the O. no the draw did not take away their chance to win and it has nothing to do with or is analogous with a plastic knife in a gunfight. That is just absurd and extreme.

 

I'm sorry but the chances of converting 3rd and 10 on a draw play are slim and none, regardless of what's going on in the game.

 

If Manning throws an incomplete pass then at least the clock stops and at that point in the game the clock had become almost as much of a problem as the score. 

 

One draw play by itself did not take away their chance to win... but draw, punt, draw in that situation while 5 mins comes off the clock in the 3rd quarter put a major dent in any chance they had left of winning. 

 

If there is a negative effect on the moral and psyche of the offense, I can tell you that draw plays and punting in those situations would have a much bigger negative effect than an incomplete pass. Draw plays and punts tell your offense you don't really trust them. 

[CatMan72]

...and on a passing play maybe you get a PI call that results in an automatic 1st down or even 1st and goal if you take a shot at the end zone?

 

I call tell you your chances of a PI call on a draw play are not good. 

[heel31ok]

I'm sorry but the chances of converting 3rd and 10 on a draw play are slim and none, regardless of what's going on in the game.

 

That is absolutely false.