RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

[TheRumGone]

I think the issue is people seem to think I have some sort of an ulterior motive going on, I am just saying how I see and have seen things, I'm not denying a mental issues being involved either, but denying that they don't have a choice I think is equally silly.

 

i know what you are saying because there is a certain level of personal responsibility. The only "choice" they have is to get  help.  Some people started just being dumb kids, some started to mask pain and it made their life easier and some start because of reasons most of us will never understand

 

You remember these people as such kind, generous friends and they turn into absolute monsters. You don't wanna be near them, you don't believe a word they say, they act like they have everything under control when it is completely obvious they don't.

 

They lie, cheat and steal to get their fix. And you can only barely see the person they used to be, and that is the only reason you keep in contact with them. It is one of the saddest things to watch and go through. you just want to scream and shake them and say "what the fug is wrong with you, just stop!"

 

i've had 3 friends die in the past 5 years from pain pill addiction. they were shells of their former selves. they died all alone, with mirages of friendships/relationships. The sympathy i speak of is for what their lives could have been and for their parents and loved ones.

[MadHatter]

I have a health degree and have studied addiction. It's a disease. It's tough and sadly it sometimes wins no matter what resources the sick person has available. You idiots on here sitting on your high horses preaching that it was a sick person's "conscious" decision to continuously inject heroin in their arm are probably the same morons who think being a homosexual is a lifestyle "choice".

 

I still do not buy into the whole...it is a disease arguement.  Usually the drug use is the byproduct of another problem or disease.  But, at the end of the day someone is an addict due to their own hand and their own decisions.

 

I am not trivializing addiction or a person's fight with drug abuse.  My brother (2 years younger than me) has fought drug addiction his entire life (for the last 28 years).  He has been strung out of coke, crack, pills, heroine, etc off and on during that time..  So, I do know what it does to you and how the self loathing can occur.  But, even he will admit that he is in the situation that he is entirely because of himself.....he even refuses to consider it a disease.  He says that the moment that he does, it tries to divert responsibility away from himself and he knows that this is not true.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Zod]

I still do not buy into the whole...it is a disease arguement.  Usually the drug use is the byproduct of another problem or disease.  But, at the end of the day someone is an addict due to their own hand and their own decisions.

 

Science says otherwise. I'll go with science.

[MadHatter]

Science says otherwise. I'll go with science.

So, if I chose not to do drugs....I do not have a disease.  But, I can chose to start using drugs today and suddenly I have a disease.....and nothing has changed but my decision to do drugs.

 

Sorry....don't buy it.  Seems like another in a long line of excuses to avoid personal accountability.

[Zod]

So, if I chose not to do drugs....I do not have a disease. But, I can chose to start using drugs today and suddenly I have a disease.....and nothing has changed but my decision to do drugs.

Sorry....don't buy it. Seems like another in a long line of excuses to avoid personal accountability.

Do some reading on the subject. You are not well informed.

Sent from the Carolina Huddle App

[MadHatter]

Do some reading on the subject. You are not well informed.

Sent from the Carolina Huddle App

 

Drug abuse is often the symptom of and way that people deal with other illnesses....both phyical illnesses and mental illnesses.  And once addicted, I agree that it is a bitch.

 

But, you can decide not to do drugs anymore (even though it is very difficult)....and there are people that stop cold turkey and do so.  You cannot just decide not to have a mental illness....or decide not to have cancer....or not to have diabetes.  But, you CAN decide not to put drugs into your system anymore.

 

I still think calling it an illness is just a means to minimize the personal accountability of people who chose to use drugs (and yes it is a choice to start using drugs in EVERY DAMN CASE).

 

It is an ADDICTION brought on by your own decisions.....which I consider different than an ILLNESS.

[SteveSmithOwns]

Do some reading on the subject. You are not well informed.

Sent from the Carolina Huddle App

 

I have to agree with MadHatter, and maybe I am not well informed as well.

 

One's background can make it more likely to do drugs, and one's physiology can make it more likely for them to be addicted to drugs once they start doing them, but I don't see how it is not one's decision to start doing them that begins the process. 

 

Now of course, there are circumstances that are beyond the norm that the person can't control (born with addiction due to mother's use, get psychically forced to do them, etc), but i'm assuming for most people, this disease occurs because they can't withstand social pressures, or they feel the need to have an out....both of which could be avoided if they had better self control.

 

and if you have any articles that I could read that disagree with my point, I would be more than happy to take a look at them

 

edit: to clarify, I am not talking about pain-killers or other prescribed drugs, but recreational use, which seems to be the case for PSH.

[TheRumGone]

Drug abuse is often the symptom of and way that people deal with other illnesses....both phyical illnesses and mental illnesses.  And once addicted, I agree that it is a bitch.

 

But, you can decide not to do drugs anymore (even though it is very difficult)....and there are people that stop cold turkey and do so.  You cannot just decide not to have a mental illness....or decide not to have cancer....or not to have diabetes.  But, you CAN decide not to put drugs into your system anymore.

 

I still think calling it an illness is just a means to minimize the personal accountability of people who chose to use drugs (and yes it is a choice to start using drugs in EVERY DAMN CASE).

 

It is an ADDICTION brought on by your own decisions.....which I consider different than an ILLNESS.

 

i think this was debated awhile back. calling it an illness helps identify the problem, and what do humans do when they get diagnosed with an illness? treat it.

 

i know what you are saying but having seen withdrawals firsthand, it most definitely should be considered a disease. a lot of times these drugs don't get you high when you are addicted, they just level you out so you feel normal. heroin addicts chase that high cause it's never like the first time. and thats when overdoses happen because they take to much trying to feel high from it again instead of just normal.

 

labeling it as such identifies the problem. Do some people use that as an excuse? sure, i'd wager most don't though.

[MadHatter]

i think this was debated awhile back. calling it an illness helps identify the problem, and what do humans do when they get diagnosed with an illness? treat it.

i know what you are saying but having seen withdrawals firsthand, it is most definitely should be considered a disease. a lot of times these drugs don't get you high when you are addicted, they just level you out so you feel normal. heroin addicts chase that high cause it's never like the first time. and thats when overdoses happen because they take to much trying to feel high from it again instead of just normal.

labeling it as such identifies the problem. Do some people use that as an excuse? sure, i'd wager most don't though.

Very fair statements

[Zod]

I have to agree with MadHatter, and maybe I am not well informed as well.

 

Correct

[Johnny Rockets]

I agree with all of you in some way. So everyone is right.

 

 

That is my contribution to this thread.

 

[SteveSmithOwns]

Correct

 

Well again, I would love to see some articles/data to support your theory.

 

In the PSH case atleast, it seems as if he was clean for two decades. for those two decades was he 'cured' of his disease or was he making a conscious choice to abstain?

[Jase]

there's an element of irresponsibility to addiction and there's an element of predisposition for it.

 

Some people can take one hit of a drug at a party and be jonesing for another taste for weeks.

 

Meanwhile people like me can snort coke off a stripper's ass at the annual huddle admins christmas party and not feel the need to do it again for a long time.

 

Both kinds of people have to take the first plunge to see what their level of addiction is.

[Inimicus]

Having abused and been addicted to a number of thing over the years I'm more inclined to come down on MadHatters side of things.

 

Ive legitimately been addicted to blow, alcohol, pain killers, and -the hardest of all to kick- nicotine and abused more addictive substances than I care to recount.  At the depths of my cocaine days I was into 3 or 4 8-balls a day.  Ive been through stretches of my life where I wasn't sober for weeks on end and not falling back into drinking too much is still something I fight.

 

BUT

 

At the end of the day it was all a choice I made.  I decided to buy the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th 8-ball of the day.  I worked at inventing methods and excuses and the just-in-case-stories if someone mentioned the smell of alcohol so I could drink on the job.

 

 

And most importantly I just got up one day and quit.

 

 

As Hatter said, you cant do that with cancer.