RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

[Floppin]

The only time I ever see anyone change is when they want the change more then the drugs, most don't, it's unfortunate but true.  at least for the people I deal with that is the case.   I will say if it makes you feel any better I said I deal with them I did not say I had anything to do with the rehabilitation of them, but with that said I also know and have experienced that they do only change when the want for whatever it may be is greater then the want for the drug. 

 

I've seen many people that I deal with get straight up disowned by family, straight up written out, these aren't people with mild addictions or casual users these are hard core addicts. and most of them want the drug more then anything else and really do not care about anything else.

 

You're applying your logic from a very elementary understanding of addiction, and it's very obvious to anyone who's studied, worked directly with, or has personal experience with addiction. Just the fact that you describe them "wanting the drugs more than anything else" makes this glaringly obvious. Once addiction sets in, from a clinical standpoint, it's no longer as much "want" as it is a need, both mentally and physically. 

 

While people lose sympathy for those in addiction and feel the need to shun them from their lives and family, I look down on such people with disdain. You have condemned these people to death. No one makes it out of addiction without a support network, no one. Anyone who just disowns someone that they once loved because of an addiction, never really loved that person to begin with and they are operating on an understanding of drug abuse and addiction that is devoid of any real reality of what addiction really means. 

[4Corners]

I have a health degree and have studied addiction. It's a disease. It's tough and sadly it sometimes wins no matter what resources the sick person has available. You idiots on here sitting on your high horses preaching that it was a sick person's "conscious" decision to continuously inject heroin in their arm are probably the same morons who think being a homosexual is a lifestyle "choice".

[4Corners]

Yep if you haven't dealt with it it is hard to fathom. Some people are just hardwired differently. It really isn't some trivial choice that is made for many

 

there's a stigma with mental illness and addiction in this country and it's been like this forever. 50 years ago science/medicine thought the proper way to treat mental illness was to perform a lobotomy. 

[Doc Holiday]

I have a health degree and have studied addiction. It's a disease. It's tough and sadly it sometimes wins no matter what resources the sick person has available. You idiots on here sitting on your high horses preaching that it was a sick person's "conscious" decision to continuously inject heroin in their arm are probably the same morons who think being a homosexual is a lifestyle "choice".

all that said I've probably dealt with more people with serious addiction issues then you(just saying), now while I do not have a degree like you do and also have nothing to do with the rehabilitation of these people, I do know from what I've seen and that is all I can say on the matter and have been saying on the matter. 

 

and Homosexuality isn't a choice, if you don't believe me saying this here just search my posts on the matter in the tinderbox you'll see that to be the case

[Doc Holiday]

there's a stigma with mental illness and addiction in this country and it's been like this forever. 50 years ago science/medicine thought the proper way to treat mental illness was to perform a lobotomy. 

very true in this regard, I have seen some people where the issue was not the addiction so much as them being mentally ill but most unfortunately most people do go without proper treatment, especially if the family lacks the proper funds needed.

[Happy Panther]

The only time I ever see anyone change is when they want the change more then the drugs, most don't, it's unfortunate but true.  at least for the people I deal with that is the case.   I will say if it makes you feel any better I said I deal with them I did not say I had anything to do with the rehabilitation of them, but with that said I also know and have experienced that they do only change when the want for whatever it may be is greater then the want for the drug. 

 

I've seen many people that I deal with get straight up disowned by family, straight up written out, these aren't people with mild addictions or casual users these are hard core addicts. and most of them want the drug more then anything else and really do not care about anything else.

 

 

very true in this regard, I have seen some people where the issue was not the addiction so much as them being mentally ill but most unfortunately most people do go without proper treatment, especially if the family lacks the proper funds needed.

 

Drug addiction is probably more of a mental issue than you seem to admit

[Doc Holiday]

Drug addiction is probably more of a mental issue than you seem to admit

I think the issue is people seem to think I have some sort of an ulterior motive going on, I am just saying how I see and have seen things, I'm not denying a mental issues being involved either, but denying that they don't have a choice I think is equally silly.

[Happy Panther]

I think the issue is people seem to think I have some sort of an ulterior motive going on, I am just saying how I see and have seen things, I'm not denying a mental issues being involved either, but denying that they don't have a choice I think is equally silly.

Can you admit that some probably don't have much of one?

[Doc Holiday]

Can you admit that some probably don't have much of one?

Yeah I would say it's possible, but I would say in large part most of them do.

[Proudiddy]

While you can't disagree with it becoming a "need" once addiction has set in, I refuse to absolve addicts of responsibility for putting themselves in that position.

 

While I believe you COULD become addicted after one use, I've had friends that tried hard drugs and never used it again because of how it made them feel.  I've went my whole life without ever taking a sip of alcohol OR trying any drug whatsoever.  I come from a family that has been ravaged by alcohol and drug use...

 

So, feeling sorry for someone because they decided to use in the first place is not in my emotional rolodex.  They make the choice to use in the first place, so it's not everyone else's job to fix it.  I don't intend to sound heartless, but it's the truth.  Do they deserve help and treatment?  ABSOLUTELY.  But, the idea that their family and friends are supposed to suffer because of the choices they made is hogwash.  I've been given plenty of reasons to get absolutely wasted on the drug of my choice in my lifetime, and the consequences and long-term effects it would have on my life and health are enough of a reason not to. 

 

I always have viewed it as, "I have enough problems in my life as is, there's no point in adding to them."

 

And to be clear, I'm not trashing anyone for their use of alcohol or weed, I'm talking about "hard" drugs. 

[Mr. Scot]

there's a stigma with mental illness and addiction in this country and it's been like this forever. 50 years ago science/medicine thought the proper way to treat mental illness was to perform a lobotomy.

Don't knock lobotomies.

The Saints would have no fanbase without them.

[SZ James (banned)]

^^Alcohol is a hard drug....

[Proudiddy]

^^Alcohol is a hard drug....

 

Agreed, but that depends on the person.  I'm speaking of social drinkers who drink in moderation and aren't dependent on it.

[StepandFetch]

The best of great actors in his generation. It seemed, even with his ancillary roles in movies that by no means reflected his style, he always reached out to the deepest and the darkest realm in the psyche of his roles, in such a fashion that showed no hesitation or fear. The man owned a certain genius. Unfortunately, it seems, that genius was never without great consequence to his own well being. It was a great gift, but it was a gift that could only be satisfied by reaching out to such a place, out to where no one could help him. I can't imagine the extreme loneliness that occupied such a burdon. The obedience to his genius necessitated suffering.