Greg Hardy says Panther negotiations yet to begin.

[Panthers111]

The tag and trade will probably get us a 3rd at best. No one is going to give a 1st or 2nd rd player for a 1 yr mercenary who may or may not resign. On top of that your paying top 5 money for him. The valuable players are the guys like Russel Wilson and Richard Sherman who are getting paid peanuts for their production. 

 

Just think about Luke he is getting paid 12 mil over 4 years. Can we say steal?!? We have him for 2 more years making peanuts. That is true value. Once he signs that 12mil+ per year contract that is when his value tanks. He will still be the heart of the defense but when you take away 12 mil from the 125-130mil pool the rest of the team is going suffer

[Rise of The Hive]

We need to get this going.

[ckad79]

Even if Hardy takes less than what he might be offered with another team, just to stay a Panther, it may still be too much. Fact is, we have a lot of space we need to collect for Luke and Cam and Hardy is not going to be understanding in that regard. Not that I blame him.

[Panthers111]

Well the good news regarding Cam and Luke is they really got screwed with the rookie deal. If you were in the 1st round the team has the option of a 5th year which pays you the avg of the top 10 of that position. Then you can franchise tag them paying them 20% higher or top 5 avg. Clearly you do both to Luke since he is going to be the highest paid LB in the NFL eventually.

 

So Luke has 2 more years of making 3mil, then roughly 9 mil, then roughly 11mil, 13mil+ (long term contract). 

As for Cam he has one more year at 5.5mil then he gets a bump to roughly 18 mil and hopefully we get a long term contract after that.

 

Just to let you guys know market value for cam is much higher than you would expect

On a per year basis

 

Rodgers 22mil 

Flacco almost 21mil

Brees 20 mil

P Manning 19mil

Cutler 18mil

Romo 18mil

Stafford almost 18mil

E Manning 16.5mil

Schuab 15.5mil

 

Even freaking Sanchez is making 13.5mil

 

Cam probably slots in right above cutler and below manning as of now but given inflation and upside I would expect north of 20mil. 

 

 

[CelticCat]

 

marty hurney- 2012

 

we went down this path before.

 

it got us in the situation we are in now. gettleman managed to fix a lot of it. is it smart to put us right back in that situation again?

 

you can let good players go. sometimes it's the best thing for the team to go forward.

 

do we actually want another giant contract like CJ's? can we afford to have that? we need to be looking at cam and keek's contract as well as some of the other players who might be coming along.

 

every team has to do this from time to time. it's what happens when you have free agency and a salary cap and if you don't like that...just think about what big market teams like the cowboys and redskins would look like if those rules weren't in place and what they would to do the level of talent in smaller markets like this one.

 

we have to look at a bigger picture than just hardy.

 

we need to look at this team and the effect his large contract would have when combined with the remaining contracts from the hurney era and those large contracts that are soon to come.

 

it might be just me, but in the big picture it just wouldn't be worth it to absorb that kind of financial commitment.

 

 

In the big picture we should be getting the bad contracts off the books so Gman can continue to build this team correctly. Keeping Hardy would be a step in that direction.

 

The problem with Hurney was that he read the market wrong after we purged the team. We overpaid almost everyone we resigned. We had a platoon system at RB and paid both like they were perennial 1000 yard rushers.

We overpaid Godfrey, we handed massive contracts to two LB's coming off major injuries. We paid CJ about 15-20 mill more than we needed to.

 

If Gman manages the cap smartly we can do this, we should do this. Hardy can play every down and has had two 10+ sack seasons as a full time starter. He is well capable of having multiple seasons of 10+ sacks. You keep those kinds of guys. The Giants were reluctant to extend Osi because he was a liability against the run and was more of a pass rush specialist, so you can be confident Gman knows what he is doing.

 

You let OK guys go, guys that can be replaced by similar guys in the market for a better price. You don't let special players walk, not when they are about to hit their prime.

 

How do you replace 15 sacks, even Peppers never had 15 sacks in a season.

[Panthers111]

In the big picture we should be getting the bad contracts off the books so Gman can continue to build this team correctly. Keeping Hardy would be a step in that direction.

 

The problem with Hurney was that he read the market wrong after we purged the team. We overpaid almost everyone we resigned. We had a platoon system at RB and paid both like they were perennial 1000 yard rushers.

We overpaid Godfrey, we handed massive contracts to two LB's coming off major injuries. We paid CJ about 15-20 mill more than we needed to.

 

If Gman manages the cap smartly we can do this, we should do this. Hardy can play every down and has had two 10+ sack seasons as a full time starter. He is well capable of having multiple seasons of 10+ sacks. You keep those kinds of guys. The Giants were reluctant to extend Osi because he was a liability against the run and was more of a pass rush specialist, so you can be confident Gman knows what he is doing.

 

You let OK guys go, guys that can be replaced by similar guys in the market for a better price. You don't let special players walk, not when they are about to hit their prime.

 

How do you replace 15 sacks, even Peppers never had 15 sacks in a season.

 

He also didn't correctly identify the "core" of this team. Godfrey is replaceable which we saw this season. James Anderson was super replacablet and he wasnt missed this season. The 2 RBs are also replaceable. Beason would have been in the core but he kept getting hurt. CJ is important but he is overpaid. He at least got TD, Kalil, and Gross right. 

 

Give the big contracts to the core players. Core players are someone who if they werent on the team there is a good chance we would lose 2-3 games that we would have normally won if they were on the team.

 

Cam is easily the offensive core. Luke is clearly defensive core. 

[CelticCat]

He also didn't correctly identify the "core" of this team. Godfrey is replaceable which we saw this season. James Anderson was super replacablet and he wasnt missed this season. The 2 RBs are also replaceable. Beason would have been in the core but he kept getting hurt. CJ is important but he is overpaid. He at least got TD, Kalil, and Gross right. 

 

Give the big contracts to the core players. Core players are someone who if they werent on the team there is a good chance we would lose 2-3 games that we would have normally won if they were on the team.

 

Cam is easily the offensive core. Luke is clearly defensive core. 

 

And Anderson was actually one of the more reasonable contracts Hurney handed out. Plus he had a very healthy career here. Godfreys contract was just insane.

 

TD and Beason are quality players but both could have been resigned for much cheaper by a shrewder GM coming off their injuries. No way any other team would have handed them those contracts at that time. Hurney played the nice guy rewarding players for what they had done not what we need them to do. I understand we got screwed in a situation with these guys hitting FA in a new market after going 2-14, but damn, its like we made mistakes with every contract, even the Jake "Tommy John" one before that. At least with Cam we made the right decision. If not for Cam, Luke and Star I don't know what our future would look like, but with those guys we have tremendous hope.

I don't want to lose Hardy, I feel he is another step in the right direction even if it costs us, he has been reliable, healthy and he is very versatile.

[hepcat]

Gettleman already told everyone he's letting him walk.  "There's isn't a team out there that hasn't let a big dog walk out the door.  We are cap challenged"

 

Dude is straight stating the facts.  What more evidence do you need?  The team doesn't have a lot of cap space and it can't tie up what little they do have in one player.  THAT'S WHAT THE OLD GM DID AND IT GOT HIM FIRED.

[CelticCat]

Gettleman already told everyone he's letting him walk.  "There's isn't a team out there that hasn't let a big dog walk out the door.  We are cap challenged"

 

Dude is straight stating the facts.  What more evidence do you need?  The team doesn't have a lot of cap space and it can't tie up what little they do have in one player.  THAT'S WHAT THE OLD GM DID AND IT GOT HIM FIRED.

 

Hurney handed out multiple BAD contracts to a lot of players. Jesus, he paid Mare 12 mill.

 

We'll see how this one pans out. Gettleman played a smart game getting Munny and Edwards to resign. I expect a similar one with Hardy, he'll get paid just not as much as Hurney would have handed out.

 

At worst you tag him and take a second rounder in exchange if you're willing to let him walk.

 

[carpanfan96]

Hurney handed out multiple BAD contracts to a lot of players. Jesus, he paid Mare 12 mill.

 

We'll see how this one pans out. Gettleman played a smart game getting Munny and Edwards to resign. I expect a similar one with Hardy, he'll get paid just not as much as Hurney would have handed out.

 

At worst you tag him and take a second rounder in exchange if you're willing to let him walk.

 

 

 

The problem is that other teams are going to be willing to shell out big money for Hardy. He's going to be paid over 12-13 million a season on average by some team in the NFL. 

 

A few reasons for that, 

 

1. Franchise DE's rarely hit the FA market or come up for trade.

2, Hardy will be by far the best player on the FA market.

3. Hardy will be the type of Impact signing that excites a fanbase and market. 

[rayzor]

the reality of the situation is that other teams out there can offer him a whole lot more money than we can without hurting the team. we can't compete with those team who have a lot of cap space and not a lot of commitments to other players on their roster.

 

we have to look beyond those 15 sacks and look at the effect a contract with hardy would have on not only the cap this next year (which there is still a good bit needing to be done) and the effect it would have on other long term contracts to guys like cam and keek as well as other guys we might want/need to keep around.

 

we can't afford another situation like we had with charles johnson. we can't afford to play hurney hardball and go way beyond what any other team would offer. we have to play smart hardball and say that the team is bigger than one guy. if it hurts the team's growth to keep him, then we have to let him go.

 

the only irreplaceable players on the team right now is cam and keek. they are the core. all else is expendable. that's the mindset we need to have...at least until we can get the cap in better long term shape.

 

it sucks, but letting hardy walk might be the best thing for the team. it would set us back a bit production-wise, but the financial impact of keeping him could set us back further and/or handicap what we are able to do going forward.

[MadHatter]

I think Hardy really, really wants to be here. He is always talking about getting paid, but he talks about wanting to be here just as much. If Gettleman makes him a reasonable offer I think he'll take it in a heart beat over going to a dumpster fire like Oakland or Jacksonville just to make more money. He even said losing sucks and he doesn't want to get stuck in that again.

 

Hardy has mentioned too many times to count how he "wants to get paid", "wants the big contract", etc....

 

Yes, he would like to stay here as the team is on the rise.  But, he is going to sign for the biggest contract he is offered....count on it.  No matter where that is.

 

Too many fans think that players are "fans" of the teams they play for and will give them some sort of discount.  It rarely happens.  This is a business, plain and simple.  Players know that....fans too often forget or never figured it out in the first place.

[MadHatter]

Hurney handed out multiple BAD contracts to a lot of players. Jesus, he paid Mare 12 mill.

 

We'll see how this one pans out. Gettleman played a smart game getting Munny and Edwards to resign. I expect a similar one with Hardy, he'll get paid just not as much as Hurney would have handed out.

 

At worst you tag him and take a second rounder in exchange if you're willing to let him walk.

 

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Munny and Edwards were mid to low tier FA's who could not garner a big contract on the open market.  Hardy is exactly the opposite.

 

If you think Hardy will come back and take a lower contract...you are kidding yourself.

[MadHatter]

In the big picture we should be getting the bad contracts off the books so Gman can continue to build this team correctly. Keeping Hardy would be a step in that direction.

 

The problem with Hurney was that he read the market wrong after we purged the team. We overpaid almost everyone we resigned. We had a platoon system at RB and paid both like they were perennial 1000 yard rushers.

We overpaid Godfrey, we handed massive contracts to two LB's coming off major injuries. We paid CJ about 15-20 mill more than we needed to.

 

If Gman manages the cap smartly we can do this, we should do this. Hardy can play every down and has had two 10+ sack seasons as a full time starter. He is well capable of having multiple seasons of 10+ sacks. You keep those kinds of guys. The Giants were reluctant to extend Osi because he was a liability against the run and was more of a pass rush specialist, so you can be confident Gman knows what he is doing.

 

You let OK guys go, guys that can be replaced by similar guys in the market for a better price. You don't let special players walk, not when they are about to hit their prime.

 

How do you replace 15 sacks, even Peppers never had 15 sacks in a season.

 

 

Problem is that Hardy will demand 12-13M per season (at least).  We already have CJ at over $15M .

 

You CANNOT have over 20% of our cap space tied up in the DE position.

 

And do NOT say a back-end loaded contract....that only makes the cap hell in the future even worse.