Jonathan Martin

[Cpt slay a ho]

I don't think the issue with Fua and Norman was that we couldn't get the best out of them.  I think it's more that their best just wasn't good enough.  Some guys just don't have what it takes.  And that's ultimately on Marty Hurney, not Ron Rivera.

 

So what about Martin?  If we gave him a shot, I'd be okay with it. If we completely avoided him, I'd be okay too. 

 

I do think he has a legit chance to get a fresh start and maybe be a better player somewhere else, and he'll probably get it.  Wherever he does get it, it'll be on him and his new coaches whether or not he succeeds. Just don't see it happening here.

 

i would agree with you on the first part if Rivera didn't stick with fua for so long, norman on the other hand jut doesn't have what it takes i'll agree but why not live with that and move on? i'm eager to see what martin does if he gets pick up by another team

[Mr. Scot]

i would agree with you on the first part if Rivera didn't stick with fua for so long, norman on the other hand jut doesn't have what it takes i'll agree but why not live with that and move on? i'm eager to see what martin does if he gets pick up by another team

 

What I've said before about Rivera, and sadly feel is probably still true, is that Rivera's good at motivation but not so great at   evaluation.  And that's an issue when he's the guy who sets the depth chart.

 

The good part, however, is that he now has a boss who's known to be very good at it.

 

[PhillyB]

he wasn't very good in miami and the only reason he's being brought up over any other JAGs is because everyone knows his name.

[Panthers111]

I don't think he was ever "good"so now he's just damaged.

 

To be fair if you dont have all the facts it is hard to pass judgement. All we know is general media stuff and we all know how much BS goes into that to make a story interesting. Unless you reviewed game tape of him and honestly evaluate him as a player it's not right to say he is a bust. 

 

The bigger picture I have a problem with is this attitude peeps have toward the victim. I am sure you wouldnt like it if you got picked on by a white worker at work for harassment for being black/weak and you reported it to management and then people around you started hating on the victim for being a snitch. That is not cool. 

[Mr. Scot]

To be fair if you dont have all the facts it is hard to pass judgement. All we know is general media stuff and we all know how much BS goes into that to make a story interesting. Unless you reviewed game tape of him and honestly evaluate him as a player it's not right to say he is a bust. 

 

The bigger picture I have a problem with is this attitude peeps have toward the victim. I am sure you wouldnt like it if you got picked on by a white worker at work for harassment for being black/weak and you reported it to management and then people around you started hating on the victim for being a snitch. That is not cool. 

 

I'm not someone who supports the whole "blame the victim" mentality in general, and definitely not here.  As soon as I heard that Incognito was involved, Martin's story had instant credibility.

 

With that said...

 

Concerns about what kind of chemistry he'll have with future teammates are legitimate, and it doesn't mean that the players who have those concerns would condone what Incognito did.  Feel safe to say most of them would not.

 

But you sign a player to your team for one reason only: because that guy helps you win football games.

 

If our GM - or anyone else's - signs Martin, it'll be because they believe he can have sufficient chemistry with his new teammates to contribute to team success.  And regardless of how much sympathy you, me or anyone else has for what happened to Martin, you don't sign a guy that can't make those contributions.

 

So in your opinion, can he do that, or not?

[WOW!!]

To be fair if you dont have all the facts it is hard to pass judgement. All we know is general media stuff and we all know how much BS goes into that to make a story interesting. Unless you reviewed game tape of him and honestly evaluate him as a player it's not right to say he is a bust. 

 

The bigger picture I have a problem with is this attitude peeps have toward the victim. I am sure you wouldnt like it if you got picked on by a white worker at work for harassment for being black/weak and you reported it to management and then people around you started hating on the victim for being a snitch. That is not cool. 

 

 

Dude was getting demoted before all this happened. This is a fact. The Oline protected better when they both were gone. This is a fact.

 

I wonder if other teams talk about Armanti Edwards, Everette Brown, Dawayne Jarret that same way you're doing for Martin here??

 

I'll Ask again

 

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick would this even be a topic??

 

If the Phins hadn't made a mistake in drafting him in the 2nd round or some draft "guru" hadn't rated him a 2nd round talent would you want him??

 

Also again he will now hear way worst poo from players on other teams. Even more now that he has a rep. for being sensitive. Do you really want that type of player in the trenches protecting Cam??

[Panthers111]

I'm not someone who supports the whole "blame the victim" mentality in general, and definitely not here.  As soon as I heard that Incognito was involved, Martin's story had instant credibility.

 

With that said...

 

Concerns about what kind of chemistry he'll have with future teammates are legitimate, and it doesn't mean that the players who have those concerns would condone what Incognito did.  Feel safe to say most of them would not.

 

But you sign a player to your team for one reason only: because that guy helps you win football games.

 

If our GM - or anyone else's - signs Martin, it'll be because they believe he can have sufficient chemistry with his new teammates to contribute to team success.  And regardless of how much sympathy you, me or anyone else has for what happened to Martin, you don't sign a guy that can't make those contributions.

 

So in your opinion, can he do that, or not?

 

I don't follow the dolphins at all. What I do know is he is a former 2nd rounder which leads me to believe he has talent. I will DG figure out if he has the upside to start on the line. Basically he is valuable because he is cheap and he fills a huge need. 

[WOW!!]

I don't follow the dolphins at all. What I do know is he is a former 2nd rounder which leads me to believe he has talent. I will DG figure out if he has the upside to start on the line. Basically he is valuable because he is cheap and he fills a huge need. 

 

Dywayne Jarret, Armanti Edwards, Eric Shelton, Everette Brown were all 2nd round picks.

 

But I'm glad you admit the only reason you like him is some draft Guru's opinion and some dumb teams scouting staff all making the mistake of making him a 2nd round pick.

 

If he was a 7th round pick you wouldn't even care.

 

 

 

Side Note:

 

I wonder how many Threads were like this on the Jets board when we gave them Otah??

[Panthers111]

Dude was getting demoted before all this happened. This is a fact. The Oline protected better when they both were gone. This is a fact.

 

I wonder if other teams talk about Armanti Edwards, Everette Brown, Dawayne Jarret that same way you're doing for Martin here??

 

I'll Ask again

 

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick would this even be a topic??

 

If the Phins hadn't made a mistake in drafting him in the 2nd round or some draft "guru" hadn't rated him a 2nd round talent would you want him??

 

Also again he will now hear way worst poo from players on other teams. Even more now that he has a rep. for being sensitive. Do you really want that type of player in the trenches protecting Cam??

 

Ryan Kalil got demoted when he first got drafted too. Give them time to develop not everyone is Cam, Luke, or Star. 

 

I think you would get a similar response with the other 3 guys if they only had 1 year in the pros then got picked on and was bullied out of the league. I am sure other teams would give them a shot. The problem is they all had several years to develop and they never did. Some peeps just don't have the mental aptitude to pass level 20 on candy crush while the guys that succeed know how to learn new skills/tools to beat the game. This is why education is important it is not merely getting As on every subject. 

 

And you are correct it wouldn't be much of a topic if he wasn't a second rounder. If he sucks in terms of skill/talent then he probably won't be able to help the team but the fact that he is a second rounder leads me to believe he has the upside to become a legit starter on our O-line. 

 

Amini (2nd rounder) hasn't been stellar either but if give them time to develop he might be really good one day. 

 

[WOW!!]

Ryan Kalil got demoted when he first got drafted too. Give them time to develop not everyone is Cam, Luke, or Star. 

 

I think you would get a similar response with the other 3 guys if they only had 1 year in the pros then got picked on and was bullied out of the league. I am sure other teams would give them a shot. The problem is they all had several years to develop and they never did. Some peeps just don't have the mental aptitude to pass level 20 on candy crush while the guys that succeed know how to learn new skills/tools to beat the game. This is why education is important it is not merely getting As on every subject. 

 

And you are correct it wouldn't be much of a topic if he wasn't a second rounder. If he sucks in terms of skill/talent then he probably won't be able to help the team but the fact that he is a second rounder leads me to believe he has the upside to become a legit starter on our O-line. 

 

Amini (2nd rounder) hasn't been stellar either but if give them time to develop he might be really good one day. 

 

 

 

Ryan Kali was playing Guard when that happened. So it wasn't that he needed time to develop at the position. He was out of position in the 1st place. Kali wouldn't be a good guard now no matter how much time he spent there.

 

Then Amini was 1 of our best Linemen this year before he got hurt. So yes it took him 1 season to develop (coming from a division 2 school). 

 

Martin Sucked at RT then he sucked at LT. Now he has a rep. for being soft. I'm sorry to tell you this. But you don't want a guy playing any Oline Position with a rep. for being soft. 

 

You can hide soft CB's and WR's but Olinemen can't be soft. Also lets not forget the fact he committed the ultimate sin in football. He quit on his team. 

 

 

[Panthers111]

I don't think being "soft" means you cant play Oline. There are quite a few OL men out there who are nice and big teddy bear type guys like gross and kalil. The key is to being a good offensive lineman is a combination of technical skills and having the right weight/size/power to be able utilize those technical skills correctly. 

 

Bottom line is you shouldn't discount Martin because he is overly emotional and you view him as weak person. Make the the business decision (no emotions involved). 

 

He is cheap

He fills a huge need

He has potential to improve the team (When your drafting players your gambling on their potential to be great. This is no different)

 

[WOW!!]

I don't think being "soft" means you cant play Oline. There are quite a few OL men out there who are nice and big teddy bear type guys like gross and kalil. The key is to being a good offensive lineman is a combination of technical skills and having the right weight/size/power to be able utilize those technical skills correctly. 

 

Bottom line is you shouldn't discount Martin because he is overly emotional and you view him as weak person. Make the the business decision (no emotions involved). 

 

He is cheap

He fills a huge need

He has potential to improve the team (When your drafting players your gambling on their potential to be great. This is no different)

  

I'm discounting him because 

 

 

He sucks

I don't want his overly sensitive ass protecting Cam

Otah had potential and was a 1st round pick. Meaning Where you were drafted  don't mean poo. It's what you do after that. And Martin has sucked and now has a bad Rep.

 

The only reason you're even arguing this is you heard his name and research that he was a 2nd round pick.

If he was a undrafted FA this wouldn't be a topic. But Because the Phins picked him in the 2nd round you're making excuses for him sucking. 

 

ARMANTI EDWARDS WAS A 2nd round pick what do you think about his potential??

 

I bet you laughed at other teams fans when they looked at Armanti the way you looking at Martin.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Seems to me the reason why this happened at all was the coaching staff got Incognito to "motivate" him.

 

A change of scenery might not be a bad idea but I don't think we want to waste valuable cap space on a guy that still might need motivation.

[stirs]

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/01/30/richie-incogntio-fights-back-against-bullying-allegations/

 

couple of angels