Nobody is talking DE in the first?

[carolina-chuck]

I think Dee Ford is only about 240, so he might end up as a 3-4 end but doubt a 4-3 guy.

Pro OT's will get their hands on him and not let go as he will be outweighed by 70-80 lbs.

Ford can still be a good 43 olb similar to Von Miller.

[MHS831]

Yea, bc we're not going DE in the 1st.

 

Because CC said so, to answer the obvious follow-up question.

[MHS831]

There's not a single DE in this class worth taking at 28 who is not named Clowney.

 

Tuitt is intriguing but he looks like he could really be a NFL DT.

 

Murphy led the nation in sack, but the kid is pretty slow. And, struggled this week in practice.

 

If we wanted a DE that bad, "Marcus" Smith is name in the 2nd round.

 

Missouri had 2 who, after the combine, could easily be the pick.  Right now, CC, you have no idea where these players will land--there is a lot of fluctuation between January and May.

 

Besides, if we lose Hardy, DE will be a large concern.  The initial point was this:  There is not a lot of depth in the draft at DE and free agency at 4-3 DE may not be an option, so you would have to grab one early.  Do not rule out round 1.

 

[carolina-chuck]

Missouri had 2 who, after the combine, could easily be the pick. Right now, CC, you have no idea where these players will land--there is a lot of fluctuation between January and May.

Besides, if we lose Hardy, DE will be a large concern. The initial point was this: There is not a lot of depth in the draft at DE and free agency at 4-3 DE may not be an option, so you would have to grab one early. Do not rule out round 1.

I never said I know whos going where.

I said other than Clowney and DEs who should be there at 28, I dont want.

Would love Ealy, but hes gonna be a high pick.

This DE class is actually pretty weak. Excluding Clowney and Ealy, theres no drop off from projected 1st to projected 2nd and early 3rd rounders.

[MHS831]

I never said I know whos going where. 

I said other than Clowney and DEs who should be there at 28, I dont want.

Would love Ealy, but hes gonna be a high pick.

This DE class is actually pretty weak. Excluding Clowney and Ealy, theres no drop off from projected 1st to projected 2nd and early 3rd rounders.

 My statement was a response to your initial comment to this thread:  "Yea, bc we're not going DE in the 1st."  No reasons, no elaboration.  The point of a pre-draft thread is to discuss possibilities.  Nobody knows where players will be on boards, especially before the combine. 

 

That suggests that you do know who is going where, as do your second and third statements above.

 

It doesn't matter, however, but I think Ealy could be there late.   This draft is solid at WR and DT, but very thin at DE.  Gettlemen is going to take BPA.  If a player like Ealy falls to the Panthers, (He is projected to be a mid first rounder--you are right there, but Star Lotulelei was ranked #1 overall at this time last year), you take him.  Some teams may fall in love with Scott Creighton (I am not a fan as a first rounder) or Jeffcoat.  Then there is Murphy.  Will Clarke could shoot up boards at the combine.  I just don't understand why your first response to a thread about the possibility of drafting a potential need position early because there may be nothing in free agency is greeted with a rather certain, "We are not going DE in the first." 

 

If we sign a WR and CB in free agency, re-sign Gross, Mitchell, Wharton, and Ginn, DE could be our biggest need entering free agency.  My point was, nobody is talking about the possibility.  Who are you going to get on a budget in free agency who can match 10-15 sacks?  Who, after the first round, are you getting in the draft in a shallow crop of DEs?  We may have to go DE early.

[carolina-chuck]

 My statement was a response to your initial comment to this thread:  "Yea, bc we're not going DE in the 1st."  No reasons, no elaboration.  The point of a pre-draft thread is to discuss possibilities.  Nobody knows where players will be on boards, especially before the combine. 

 

That suggests that you do know who is going where, as do your second and third statements above.

 

It doesn't matter, however, but I think Ealy could be there late.   This draft is solid at WR and DT, but very thin at DE.  Gettlemen is going to take BPA.  If a player like Ealy falls to the Panthers, (He is projected to be a mid first rounder--you are right there, but Star Lotulelei was ranked #1 overall at this time last year), you take him.  Some teams may fall in love with Scott Creighton (I am not a fan as a first rounder) or Jeffcoat.  Then there is Murphy.  Will Clarke could shoot up boards at the combine.  I just don't understand why your first response to a thread about the possibility of drafting a potential need position early because there may be nothing in free agency is greeted with a rather certain, "We are not going DE in the first." 

 

If we sign a WR and CB in free agency, re-sign Gross, Mitchell, Wharton, and Ginn, DE could be our biggest need entering free agency.  My point was, nobody is talking about the possibility.  Who are you going to get on a budget in free agency who can match 10-15 sacks?  Who, after the first round, are you getting in the draft in a shallow crop of DEs?  We may have to go DE early.

 

We can sign Gross, Mitchell, Wharton, and Ginn, and DE still wouldnt be the biggest need even if Hardy is not retained.

 

[MHS831]

We can sign Gross, Mitchell, Wharton, and Ginn, and DE still wouldnt be the biggest need even if Hardy is not retained.

 

 

Debatable. Pass pressure is how this team won in 2013.  Had Hardy not been on the roster in 2013, you might think otherwise.

 

But you don't draft your biggest need in the first round, your second biggest need in the second round, etc.  You have to analyze the market, when players are going to be available.

 

Have you seen the free agent market at DE?  Who can we afford?

 

Are there pass-rushing, run stopping DEs going to be available in the second round of the draft and after?  We both agree, probably not.

 

Will there be WRs and OL who could help us in rounds 2 and 3?  Yes. Supply and demand plays a big part.  Of course, your argument could be that Alexander, Addison, and Horton can do the job.  Who knows.

[carolina-chuck]

Debatable. Pass pressure is how this team won in 2013.  Had Hardy not been on the roster in 2013, you might think otherwise.

 

But you don't draft your biggest need in the first round, your second biggest need in the second round, etc.  You have to analyze the market, when players are going to be available.

 

Have you seen the free agent market at DE?  Who can we afford?

 

Are there pass-rushing, run stopping DEs going to be available in the second round of the draft and after?  We both agree, probably not.

 

Will there be WRs and OL who could help us in rounds 2 and 3?  Yes. Supply and demand plays a big part.  Of course, your argument could be that Alexander, Addison, and Horton can do the job.  Who knows.

 

Alexander, Horton, and Addison played well when the time were given. These are guys that are ready to contribute now. They may now be household names like a Greg Hardy, but Hardy didnt start to come into his own until last year.

 

The free agent market, imo is actually pretty good at DE: Justin Tuck, Willie Young, Everson Griffen, Corey Wootton, and Matt Shaughnessy (affordable).

 

Wide receiver, OL, and DBs are much bigger issues than DE. I'm not oppose to taking a DE in the 1st round, I just cant see it happening.

[heel31ok]

Taking a DE in the first wouldn't be a good idea.  I have us taking Kareem Martin in the 6th.  

 I Like Martin but I don't know if he lasts that long. Love to see Heels in Teal.

[The Lone Panther]

 I Like Martin but I don't know if he lasts that long. Love to see Heels in Teal.

Martin is an okay DE, but I would much rather have Michael Sam in the 3rd. 

[heel31ok]

Martin is an okay DE, but I would much rather have Michael Sam in the 3rd. 

 everyone has their faves. i am a Heel fan so I would always welcome one to the team even if I wouldn't necassarily have them on my board.

[The Lone Panther]

 everyone has their faves. i am a Heel fan so I would always welcome one to the team even if I wouldn't necassarily have them on my board.

I completely understand.  I'm still hoping the Panthers draft Connor Shaw, since I'm a Gamecock fan.

[heel31ok]

I completely understand.  I'm still hoping the Panthers draft Connor Shaw, since I'm a Gamecock fan.

not a gamecock fan but I do like Shaw and think he is better than many give him credit for. I think he can play in this league. He is one tough dude.

[stirs]

Having a numbers background (accounting), I think of a team and its talent sometimes as a 1-10 rating system.  Overall, for instance, the Panthers were about a 6-7.

 

Obviously we had guys who were 8-10 and some that were 3-5 range.

 

What we want to do is identify guys in the draft that can raise our numbers, or overall team rating.

 

If for instance, one of the elite WR's are there at 28, then we can plug in an 8 where we now have a 5, thus helping our team.

If a DE for instance is no better than the guys replacing Hardy, then we are wasting a pick.  This is where the BPA comes in.  There could be a dynamic LB at 28 that has fallen who is a 9, but he might be 3 points better than Klein.

 

As long as we help our team get better, then we are headed in the right direction. 

 

All that to say that I don't see a DE at 28 that will be that much better than the ones behind Hardy.  What is more probable is to find a RT better than Bell, or a CB better than one of our starters, or the easiest might be a WR who drops and can plug in several points higher than what we have currently.