Fox and the Broncos

[rayzor]

anyone bringing up fox's year with The Golden Calf of Bristol as proof he was a good coach needs a refresher of that year.

 

The Golden Calf of Bristol started 11 games.

 

he had a 7-4 record as a starter that year. he (and his team) beat no team that had a better than 8-8 record in regular season with The Golden Calf of Bristol starting. The Golden Calf of Bristol was responsible for a combined 18 TDs (passing and rushing).

 

people bring up the fact that they got into the playoffs...but they did it with an 8-8 record.

 

and they didn't have that 8-8 record because their schedule was so hard. they did it in spite of having an incredibly weak schedule in which there were only 4 teams they faced all year with winning records (cincy, packers, lions, and pats).

 

that trip to the playoffs was a fluke.

 

they are on top right now for one reason and one reason only...peyton manning.

[Cyberjag]

It's amazing how much people love to hate on Fox and Hurney. 

[rayzor]

It's amazing how much people love to hate on Fox and Hurney. 

 

i never think about them until someone brings them up (usually in here).

 

when they are brought up, tho, i'm not going to pretend i didn't want them gone for the last few years they were here.

[frash.exe]

anyone bringing up fox's year with The Golden Calf of Bristol as proof he was a good coach needs a refresher of that year.

The Golden Calf of Bristol started 11 games.

he had a 7-4 record as a starter that year. he (and his team) beat no team that had a better than 8-8 record in regular season with The Golden Calf of Bristol starting. The Golden Calf of Bristol was responsible for a combined 18 TDs (passing and rushing).

people bring up the fact that they got into the playoffs...but they did it with an 8-8 record.

and they didn't have that 8-8 record because their schedule was so hard. they did it in spite of having an incredibly weak schedule in which there were only 4 teams they faced all year with winning records (cincy, packers, lions, and pats).

that trip to the playoffs was a fluke.

they are on top right now for one reason and one reason only...peyton manning.

And they were barely beating the shitty teams they were playing that season. Like, they were shooting out with the Minnesota Vikings led by rookie Christian Ponder

[Cyberjag]

i never think about them until someone brings them up (usually in here).

 

when they are brought up, tho, i'm not going to pretend i didn't want them gone for the last few years they were here.

 

I don't judge either by their last couple of years.  They were both almost hamstrung by circumstance.  Fox had to coach out a contract with players he didn't necessarily want, and Hurney was completely caught off guard by Peppers' intransigence and Richardson's directions.  Neither were the best in the NFL at what they did, but together they took a Panthers team that had enjoyed only one winning season in it's history and brought them to the Super Bowl and a ton of relevance.

 

Yes, it unraveled after 2008-2009.  But they made us respectable, and for that we should be grateful.  Anyone who thinks Fox can't coach is ignoring all the evidence to the contrary--he got hired almost immediately by an organization who knows a little bit about football.  Just because he doesn't explain the reasons behind everything he's doing in press conferences doesn't mean he doesn't have good ones.

 

I hope he wins it all this year.  He's a good guy, a good coach, and he did good things for our franchise.

[rayzor]

fox and hurney dug their hole.

 

they wanted jake. fox wanted older players he didn't have to develop. hurney had cap management and neither guy was all that great at spotting outside talent.

 

we peaked early and did very little to evolve, esp. philisophically.

 

he did well early on and i respect that. it was from 2007 on that we didn't change/improve enough.

[Cyberjag]

fox and hurney dug their hole.

 

they wanted jake. fox wanted older players he didn't have to develop. hurney had cap management and neither guy was all that great at spotting outside talent.

 

we peaked early and did very little to evolve, esp. philisophically.

 

he did well early on and i respect that. it was from 2007 on that we didn't change/improve enough.

 

I don't buy that about Fox.  He's still coaching the same way, but now he has a star QB.  That makes a difference for anyone, but it takes more than one player to win.  He's done a good job in Denver in assembling a coaching staff and keeping his team motivated and ready to play.

 

Hurney did dig a hole, but he also did a lot of good things early.  I have heard different things on how things went down where Peppers was concerned, and about some of the contract extensions, so I don't really know what to think there.  Yeah, he screwed up the cap late, but that doesn't really bother me because we always had a screwed up cap.  I do think that what's emerged after this year is that DG's doing a better job at finding quality depth, but that's for another thread. 

 

Regardless, both of those guys did enough good while they were here that the hate for them doesn't seem reasonable.  I get it if you just started following the team in 2006, and I know there are a lot of people posting here who were kids then.  Still, if you appreciate our franchise history at all, you should appreciate their accomplishments enough to show them just a teeny bit of respect.  Right?

[frash.exe]

Anybody who doesn't think Peyton is the most valuable and productive entity on that team and it's mostly fox is retarded. And I don't mean that in the offensive, "lol ur retarded" internet flaming sense. I mean that in the "you have a few too many chromosomes and a large tongue and can't comprehend anything beyond potato chips tasting good" sense.

Peyton has made almost every receiver on that team look like a stud compared to what they once were. Welker's the only one who had carved out a productive career before playing with Manning. The others were nobodies who suddenly became dominant. Knowshon Moreno has statistically the greatest season he's ever had and before this he was considered a disappointing bust. Losing franchise LT Clady doesn't matter, not having Miller for most of the year doesn't matter, injuries don't matter anymore because Peyton Manning is literally an audibling machine who spits out 30 yard pass plays like they're nothing, and if the Broncos go all the way then I'm happy for a guy who's recently had open heart surgery and worked for a guy who "bed checks" 50 year olds and doesn't know how to draw a pie chart while he's condescendingly berating leaders of the players' union.

[Cyberjag]

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that Manning isn't valuable, but to say that Fox can't coach and that the only reason the Broncos are successful is because of Manning would be equally foolish.

[frash.exe]

Where would they be without manning the last two years?

[Cyberjag]

In the playoffs, but probably not in contention.  Unless they got a better QB than The Golden Calf of Bristol.

[rayzor]

i expected more than what we got from fox after our last NFCCG.

 

i expected growth. i expected consistent winning.

 

fox always had an excuse, but the truth is he was always pretty much just an average coach and i was never satisfied with that. i don't care if there were worse. i didn't care about that one trip to the superbowl. it only counted for one year. it's what he did after that which made me increasingly jaded towards him.

 

what he's experiencing now is the peyton effect. they are heading to the superbowl because of peyton manning.

 

i have to ask, just how good do you think that the broncos would be were it not for peyton? if peyton wasn't a bronco, how much success would they have? and who has more to do with their success? peyton or fox?

 

fox fell into a good situation in denver. first year landed in a crappy division that was so bad it's division champ won it with an 8-8 record. then he won the peyton manning lottery.

 

fox is average and lucky. i'm not willing to give him any more than that.

[rayzor]

Where would they be without manning the last two years?

 

one year a little better than average. the next year a little worse than average. but overall....pretty much average.

 

[thefuzz]

I don't buy that about Fox.  He's still coaching the same way, but now he has a star QB.  That makes a difference for anyone, but it takes more than one player to win.  He's done a good job in Denver in assembling a coaching staff and keeping his team motivated and ready to play.

 

Hurney did dig a hole, but he also did a lot of good things early.  I have heard different things on how things went down where Peppers was concerned, and about some of the contract extensions, so I don't really know what to think there.  Yeah, he screwed up the cap late, but that doesn't really bother me because we always had a screwed up cap.  I do think that what's emerged after this year is that DG's doing a better job at finding quality depth, but that's for another thread. 

 

Regardless, both of those guys did enough good while they were here that the hate for them doesn't seem reasonable.  I get it if you just started following the team in 2006, and I know there are a lot of people posting here who were kids then.  Still, if you appreciate our franchise history at all, you should appreciate their accomplishments enough to show them just a teeny bit of respect.  Right?

 

Cyber, you and I agree on a couple things here, and greatly disagree on a couple.

 

1: John Fox is a good NFL coach.  He is a conservative, defensive minded coach that players love to play for.  He is not all that great about changing gameplans, or adjusting to the ups and down of a league year/game.

 

2: Marty Hurney is and idiot who never had a clue about the inner workings of a successful football team, and never had a long term outlook for the betterment of this franchise.  His draft history of trades and busts, his inability to find a franchise QB, and his GOD AWFUL contracts laid out to his "core" guys was utterly ridiculous.  I'm not sure that there was a worse GM in football during his stint here.