Speculation on Hardy's Future (NFL.com)

[TheRed]

But since you're so confident a tag and trade is an option you must be comfortable with how that impacts the cap, right? Which is what?

 

I have not advocated the tag, and trade scenario. I haven't even referenced it yet in this thread, or any other thread for that matter.

 

Not sure why you are getting so worked up about this, it's all speculation anyway.

[carpanfan96]

His contract would be the same as a fully guaranteed salary, his salary would follow him to the new team and wouldn't act like a signing bonus. It's done like that to make tender's and non exclusive franchise tags work the way they are intended.

 

If another team get's involved and wants to sign that player they have to pay the price, making it harder to trade a player under one of those would be counter intuitive of the whole purpose of putting draft pick prices on the tags and tenders. 

 

To make it simple, the team can tag and trade him with no effect on the cap situation. If a trade can't be worked out they can also pull the tag offer and let the player become an UFA. 

 

 

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

[RoaringRiot]

I have not advocated the tag, and trade scenario. I haven't even referenced it yet in this thread, or any other thread for that matter.

Not sure why you are getting so worked up about this, it's all speculation anyway.

When I asked you the options your answer was I should know because of the other threads. A tag and trade is the only option I've seen on here other than letting him walk.

If you just told me what options you were talking about, because I hope to God there are some others than those two, then it would have been a lot easier.

I know that's not your style though. I'm just trying to fully understand what the options are....that's all.

[TheRed]

When I asked you the options your answer was I should know because of the other threads. A tag and trade is the only option I've seen on here other than letting him walk.

If you just told me what options you were talking about, because I hope to God there are some others than those two, then it would have been a lot easier.

I know that's not your style though. I'm just trying to fully understand what the options are....that's all.

 

There is the tag, the tender, and the tag and trade (unlikely). If you seek conflict, please quote the other poster. Again, I don't see why you feel the need to behave like a jackass when you promote your tailgates and what not here. It's not a good look, and I've told you this before.

[RoaringRiot]

His contract would be the same as a fully guaranteed salary, his salary would follow him to the new team and wouldn't act like a signing bonus. It's done like that to make tender's and non exclusive franchise tags work the way they are intended.

If another team get's involved and wants to sign that player they have to pay the price, making it harder to trade a player under one of those would be counter intuitive of the whole purpose of putting draft pick prices on the tags and tenders.

To make it simple, the team can tag and trade him with no effect on the cap situation. If a trade can't be worked out they can also pull the tag offer and let the player become an UFA.

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

Thanks for the link. I'll read through it when I'm not on my phone.

My main concerns would be

1) would the figure being immediately accelerated against the cap prevent us from making any other moves that we would be targeting?

2) seems like a big risk to tag if our real intention is only to trade. If we can't but need to them we are fugged.

[Marguide]

His contract would be the same as a fully guaranteed salary, his salary would follow him to the new team and wouldn't act like a signing bonus. It's done like that to make tender's and non exclusive franchise tags work the way they are intended.

 

If another team get's involved and wants to sign that player they have to pay the price, making it harder to trade a player under one of those would be counter intuitive of the whole purpose of putting draft pick prices on the tags and tenders. 

 

To make it simple, the team can tag and trade him with no effect on the cap situation. If a trade can't be worked out they can also pull the tag offer and let the player become an UFA. 

 

 

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

 

The above, combined with Panthro's earlier post, explain exactly what would happen.

 

We could give him the non-exclusive franchise tag, negotiate a trade, and have no cap impact. However, until the trade is complete, we have to have room under our cap to carry the amount of the franchise tag. That shouldn't be a big problem. We would just have to find a partner and see what we could get for him. 

[carpanfan96]

The options are to Franchise tag and trade him, let him walk or set up a deal that is very friendly in year 1 and 2. You can make the first two year friendly with a few different cap tactics, such as option bonuses and back loading the contract. 

[RoaringRiot]

There is the tag, the tender, and the tag and trade (unlikely). If you seek conflict, please quote the other poster. Again, I don't see why you feel the need to behave like a jackass when you promote your tailgates and what not here. It's not a good look, and I've told you this before.

I know man...all you do is call me a jackass. It's your style. I asked a simple question and you took it here. Im not looking for conflict, quite the opposite actually, you just love taking it there and reflecting it to me. What do you think it makes you look like?

[RoaringRiot]

The options are to Franchise tag and trade him, let him walk or set up a deal that is very friendly in year 1 and 2. You can make the first two year friendly with a few different cap tactics, such as option bonuses and back loading the contract.

Option 3 sounds the best but feels like a Hurney plan.

By the way....I love how Gettleman answered the Hurney questions. You could tell what he really wanted to say.

[carpanfan96]

Thanks for the link. I'll read through it when I'm not on my phone.

My main concerns would be

1) would the figure being immediately accelerated against the cap prevent us from making any other moves that we would be targeting?

2) seems like a big risk to tag if our real intention is only to trade. If we can't but need to them we are fugged.

 

The tag would count in theory but since the tag portion of the off season is before FA they would have some time to make a trade happen before it would impact the teams plans in FA. 

 

Also most probably don't know, but counting carry over the Panther's will have nearly 30 million in cap room this off season. 

 

The cap breaks down as 18 million in cap room and then around 10 million in carry over. 

 

A large chunk of that will likely go to Cam and his new deal that should get done this off season, but there's still plenty of wiggle room to allow the tag to sit while the team makes a deal. Also like I said if no deal can be found, the team can remove the tag and allow the player to become an UFA. So there's plenty of options for the team, but there is a really good possibility that Cam's deal takes up enough room that they have to let him walk. 

[carpanfan96]

Option 3 sounds the best but feels like a Hurney plan.

By the way....I love how Gettleman answered the Hurney questions. You could tell what he really wanted to say.

 

 

The team is about to deal with that with Stewart with him due and 6.7 million option bonus this season, it's one of the reason's his contract is so unmovable. His deal starts ballooning cap hit wise this season because of that option bonus. 

 

His cap hit goes from 3 million this past season to 5.5 this upcoming season to nearly 9 in 2015, now if he declines it becomes a fully guaranteed 2014 salary. 

 

If I understand his deal correctly, he can decline his bonus and make close to 9 million in base this season. 

[MadHatter]

Tag and trade is the way to go...

We can't afford him under the tag or otherwise but I guarantee you someone out there will give us at least a 1st for a 25 year old 15 sack guy... Possibly even a 1st and 3rd

 

The problem in that scenario is that every team out there knows that we really can't afford to sign him.  Therefore, our leverage and trade power is significantly reduced.

 

Hardy is absolutely worth a first round pick.  Although I doubt anyone would offer us one for him.

[TheRed]

It may not be a first rounder, but Hardy undoubtedly will net us a high draft pick if we do go that route.

[carpanfan96]

The problem in that scenario is that every team out there knows that we really can't afford to sign him.  Therefore, our leverage and trade power is significantly reduced.

 

Hardy is absolutely worth a first round pick.  Although I doubt anyone would offer us one for him.

 

KC was in the same position with Jared Allen and still got 1 first and 2 thirds and a 6th round swap.