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AKPantherFan

By AKPantherFan,
in Carolina Panthers

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JoCoLoco Newbie

JoCoLoco

Posted
Posted

In retrospect I feel sorta good for you guys getting as far as you did after all the years die-hard AZ fans have put in with that team. I would feel a lot better about ya'll if we had at least played well in that game, but to be honest I think I and most of the rest of us feel more animosity toward our coaching staff than the Cards, as evidenced by the rhetoric all offseason.

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bleys Newbie

bleys

Posted
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Well, to be fair they do have Boldin who was probably more productive than Fitz during the regular season when he actually played last season. But I agree, you let a banged up Boldin knock us out of the playoffs.

not to beat a deadhorse but Fox is again given a pass and blame goes to Trgo...Fox admitted he decided to sit in on the defensive meetings....so Fox obviously thought it was a good gameplan even if you are one who believes it wasn't Fox's gameplan to begin with.

Not to beat a dead horse either, but playcalling is most important to run a scheme..

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Gum Newbie

Gum

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I'm going to try to road-trip for the AZ game...maybe.... :)

I was surprised at the good showing of Carolina fans two years ago. There were a bunch of Pepper's jerseys scattered about. I am guessing there were a few thousand on hand.

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The Question Contributor

The Question

Posted
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NO ONE pissed me off more than tURGOCRAP...

He was a waste of coaching space and TERRIBLE.

I have a feeling we are going to KILL them this season. I am sure the guys will be more than ready. :mad5:

Deep breathing AK, deeep breathing. It's gonna be okay. The meeks is here to swaddle you with his ball hawk defense now.

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The Question Contributor

The Question

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I was surprised at the good showing of Carolina fans two years ago. There were a bunch of Pepper's jerseys scattered about. I am guessing there were a few thousand on hand.

I remember that, I found it odd considering we're on opposite sides of the country XD

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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Not to beat a dead horse either, but playcalling is most important to run a scheme..

so you are assuming playcalls are probably not discussed in the defensive meetings that Fox was part of? Both with the team and w/ his coaches? Again, there is no reason why Fox doesn't deserve a large portion of blame for what they tried to do on defense that 1st half......there was nothing in the scheme they brought out that showed any respect for Fitz. Fox clearly said he stuck w/ the same scheme and wasn't going to have his D adjust and change b/c of AZ a game.

It is easy to not put the blame on Fox b/c he is still our coach but he deserves plenty for it that game.......not just the coordinators.

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bleys Newbie

bleys

Posted
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so you are assuming playcalls are probably not discussed in the defensive meetings that Fox was part of? Both with the team and w/ his coaches? Again, there is no reason why Fox doesn't deserve a large portion of blame for what they tried to do on defense that 1st half......there was nothing in the scheme they brought out that showed any respect for Fitz. Fox clearly said he stuck w/ the same scheme and wasn't going to have his D adjust and change b/c of AZ a game.

It is easy to not put the blame on Fox b/c he is still our coach but he deserves plenty for it that game.......not just the coordinators.

I'm not assuming playcalls were not discussed.. I'm guaranteeing you play calls were not discussed. And if they were, it wasn't the plays, it would have been the scheme.. The actual plays were not even possible to be discussed.

Fox helped put a game plan together, so I agree, plenty of blame to go around.. Fox is the HC, and is the main one catching grief for the game. But that doesn't have anything to do with how inefficient Trgo is... when the game is going on, there is absolutely no way you pre-plan the plays that are being called. And to think that is even possible is ridiculous. Just sayin man... When the game is going on, there is absolutely no way a game's worth of plays are pre planned...

Think about how a game, plays out.. The offense may have the 1st drive pre-planned out, but after that even they are going on the feel of the game.

For example, you set up 2 running plays and then you have to see where you are at.. if it's 3rd and 9, are you saying you have a run play already pre-planned.. Now if the feel of the game says that running the ball is a smart decision, go for it.. but it's not a play that was expected to be ran before the game started...

On defense, think of it the same.. You have no idea what the offense is going to do. The DC, who is calling the plays, is going with the feel of the game and what they want to press/back off on the offense. It varies... You have to see what the other team is doing, if they run a lot, you try to guess right and stack for the run..

What I'm saying is, I guarantee you play calling isn't discussed before the game..

We have no idea what Fox did before the game.. I'm sure he had input on the game, he is the head coach... but face it, Trgo left a lot to be desired as a DC... That's what my point is, anyhow. You can put together the greatest of schemes, but if the DC isn't running it right, he has to go... Clearly, Trgo wasn't running it efficiently. And that's not even including teaching the players fundamentals. Which is a whole other issue that Trgo seemed to completely ignore... That in it's own right deserves a change. Fox can't do everything.. You have to understand the role of coach and coordinator.

Now, we get to see what this year brings... But more importantly, what the year after that brings, once this defense has been going for a year..

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted

I'm not assuming playcalls were not discussed.. I'm guaranteeing you play calls were not discussed. And if they were, it wasn't the plays, it would have been the scheme.. The actual plays were not even possible to be discussed.

Fox helped put a game plan together, so I agree, plenty of blame to go around.. Fox is the HC, and is the main one catching grief for the game. But that doesn't have anything to do with how inefficient Trgo is... when the game is going on, there is absolutely no way you pre-plan the plays that are being called. And to think that is even possible is ridiculous. Just sayin man... When the game is going on, there is absolutely no way a game's worth of plays are pre planned...

Think about how a game, plays out.. The offense may have the 1st drive pre-planned out, but after that even they are going on the feel of the game.

For example, you set up 2 running plays and then you have to see where you are at.. if it's 3rd and 9, are you saying you have a run play already pre-planned.. Now if the feel of the game says that running the ball is a smart decision, go for it.. but it's not a play that was expected to be ran before the game started...

On defense, think of it the same.. You have no idea what the offense is going to do. The DC, who is calling the plays, is going with the feel of the game and what they want to press/back off on the offense. It varies... You have to see what the other team is doing, if they run a lot, you try to guess right and stack for the run..

What I'm saying is, I guarantee you play calling isn't discussed before the game..

We have no idea what Fox did before the game.. I'm sure he had input on the game, he is the head coach... but face it, Trgo left a lot to be desired as a DC... That's what my point is, anyhow. You can put together the greatest of schemes, but if the DC isn't running it right, he has to go... Clearly, Trgo wasn't running it efficiently. And that's not even including teaching the players fundamentals. Which is a whole other issue that Trgo seemed to completely ignore... That in it's own right deserves a change. Fox can't do everything.. You have to understand the role of coach and coordinator.

Now, we get to see what this year brings... But more importantly, what the year after that brings, once this defense has been going for a year..

you guarantee playcalls are not discussed prior to games? So you guarantee Fox/Trgo don't talk about situations and what they want to call defensively when those downs/situations appear on Sunday? Sure, it isn't all mapped out and they can adjust/scrap it(like they did in the 2nd half)......but the manner in which you try to take Fox out of the equation is just something we don't see eye to eye on.

Trgo did leave a lot to be desired but so does Fox. That is my point. I am fine w/ people blaming Trgo but Fox can't be realistically left out of the complaint. Fox is a defensive guy and that is his defense just as much as it Trgo's.....if not more so.

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bleys Newbie

bleys

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you guarantee playcalls are not discussed prior to games? So you guarantee Fox/Trgo don't talk about situations and what they want to call defensively when those downs/situations appear on Sunday? Sure, it isn't all mapped out and they can adjust/scrap it(like they did in the 2nd half)......but the manner in which you try to take Fox out of the equation is just something we don't see eye to eye on.

Trgo did leave a lot to be desired but so does Fox. That is my point. I am fine w/ people blaming Trgo but Fox can't be realistically left out of the complaint. Fox is a defensive guy and that is his defense just as much as it Trgo's.....if not more so.

So then you're point should be reworded.. You said play calling was discussed prior to the game happening, which is not possible. Now if you said that situations during the game that needed to be looked at, then I'll give you a little room to move on that topic..

But then again, that's why they call them game time decisions, and I highly doubt a decision was made by Fox until the situation arose. There are wayyyyy too many elements to see and feel out in order to make a call on them. Trgo may know what Fox will do in a circumstance, they worked together for 7 years and he is the HC, so Fox at some point set expectations.. But that's totally different than saying they talk about situations before they occur.. There are too many elements to know because each situation is new..

When in the heat of things, you cannot ever put a label and say "If this happens, go for it.. or if it's 3rd and 13th, do a draw play", because the game changes constantly.

You are talking about putting blame on a coach before the game that he would have no idea of a decision until that situation arose.. which is totally different than Trgo's ability to play call.. You're talking about making a decision in a situation, and have trailed from Trgo and play calling which was the issue. Making a decision here and there has nothing to do with play calling.

That's why I bring up, put yourself in the situation and think through what your talking about...

And when Fox makes one of those decisions, like run a draw play on 3rd and 13, that's usually a very smart play call.. But that's another topic.

But before the game, they are going over scheme more than anything. He's thinking about speeches, situations that may arise and what to do.. Viewing the game as it could happen. He's not sitting around meddling with play calls, that's what the coordinators do..

THey aren't discussing game time decisions and playcalling because 1) Fox won't make that decision without knowing all the elements which is IMPOSSIBLE to know before the game and 2) because discussing play calling before a game is like talking about whether to throw the red flag or not before knowing the circumstances of the play...

Is it unheard of for that to happen? absolutely not... but to think Fox's main duty is to step into meetings all the time and fug everything up is a bit of a reach.. and I think I've explained why fairly well..

Just saying.. Theoretically, you may have a bit of a point.. but in actuality, there's no way that would be remotely smart of a coach..

I said there was a lot of blame to go around, no one has said Fox is innocent. So I understand what you're saying.. but the points (or the explanation) you have given aren't really going to hold up when you ask any football player who is in these situations...

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted

What you have to remember when discussing a game is that, while in-game adjustments can be made, you can't just implement a completely different scheme and game plan over a halftime. What you spent a week practicing can't just be unmade in 20 minutes.

Tweak? Yes. Remake from scratch? Nada :nonod:

Meat's insight is pretty enlightening on this topic.

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