One glaring Kapernick flaw

[mcdougal]

horrible passer is kind of a misnomer.

 

what a lot of posters are saying is he can't read defenses. which makes him a horrible qb (passer).

 

whenever he faces a dominant defense who realize if you take away his first read and are able to contain him with fast lbs (like we have) you expose him. but there are only few teams who can do this. (us, seahawks and a few others who have dominant front 7s)

 

Cam (and other qbs like luck, rw, and tannehill) is different. he sits in the pocket and only runs when he has to. Kaep makes one read, freaks out and runs or scrambles till a receiver gets open. this isn't an exaggeration either. cause i was in the camp that i thought kaep was gonna be a great qb with harbaugh as his coach. But i haven't seen any change or an progression in his ability to read defenses.

 

kaep is getting by on his athleticism alone which is pretty remarkable. he is a freak athletically in the same mold as Cam.

 

 

Guess, what. The Seahawks and the Panthers (and the Cardinals) give Brees a lot of trouble too. The Seahawks and the 49ers give Newton a lot of trouble. I am guessing Newton and Brees can't read defenses too.

 

Hello, that is why they are the best defenses in the NFL. They would give Manning (well maybe not this year) and Brady and Rodgers trouble too. Hello.

 

COLIN plays against Seahawks, Cardinals, and the Rams defenses 40% of the time. Those are GOOD to GREAT defenses. Also keep in mind, he didn't just not have Crabtree...He also lost his ENTIRE WR core from his SB run. Kyle Williams was his number #2 WR. And yes I understand he did have VD. However, his entire WR core was literally GONE!

 

 

BTW, the same nonsense about not progressing is THE EXACT SAME NONSENSE other message boards say about Cam Newton.

 

In fact, if you head over to the 49ers board RIGHT NOW they are saying the SAME THING ABOUT NEWTON.

[Rules&Regulations]

Over the course of a season, if one QB has a higher rating than all those mentioned, it is not logical to say that that QB is a worse passer.

Especially given how that QB's WR core for much of the season undertook a complete overhaul.

Not sure if Colin is better at passing than any one of those mentioned, but nothing in his history while in the NFL, which includes being 5 yards from winning a SB, indicates he is less of a passer.

Depends what you mean by "passer". Are you talking "arm talent"? Are you talking reading defenses and making correct decisions? Kaepernick has shown the ability to execute his coaches play calling and has the ability to make plays with his arm and his legs, but he isn't what you would call a mature or complete QB in terms of reading the defense, adjusting/audibling, going through progressions, pocket presence, etc...the types of things an NFL QB needs to do for sustained success. In those aspects, those other qbs you mentioned are light years ahead of Kaepernick.

[TheRumGone]

Guess, what. The Seahawks and the Panthers (and the Cardinals) give Brees a lot of trouble too. The Seahawks and the 49ers give Newton a lot of trouble. I am guessing Newton and Brees can't read defenses too.

 

Hello, that is why they are the best defenses in the NFL. They would give Manning (well maybe not this year) and Brady and Rodgers trouble too. Hello.

 

COLIN plays against Seahawks, Cardinals, and the Rams defenses 40% of the time. Those are GOOD to GREAT defenses. Also keep in mind, he didn't just not have Crabtree...He also lost his ENTIRE WR core from his SB run. Kyle Williams was his number #2 WR. And yes I understand he did have VD. However, his entire WR core was literally GONE!

 

 

BTW, the same nonsense about not progressing is THE EXACT SAME NONSENSE other message boards say about Cam Newton.

 

In fact, if you head over to the 49ers board RIGHT NOW they are saying the SAME THING ABOUT NEWTON.

 

Cam was no where near at the level of reading defenses he is now that he was last year. It is evident.

 

And i'm talking about defenses who have elite linebackers who can run Kaep down and contain him with disciplined football. Your points about WR core are invalid. Cam has an awful WR core and still gets it done because he actually goes through his progressions. I dont know why you are yelling this is a civil debate.

 

[mav1234]

if you watch Kap play, whether he has been instructed to or not, he typically looks to run much earlier in plays than Cam does.  In fact, Cam seems to have been coached to do the total opposite, which frustrates me immensely.

 

I don't want to say "Kap can't read defenses" because he uses his athleticism more.  He moves their offense.

I do not think he is as good as Cam, but I think he's a decent QB still.  Certainly not a terrible QB.  But he probably isn't as good a "Pure passer" as the other dudes listed in this thread, but meh.  Who gives a fug.

[TheRumGone]

what's kind of disturbing is kaep sat behind smith for a while and is still struggling mightily with this. meanwhile kaep has an elite o-line and running game. and cam has ziltch

[mav1234]

You guys need to stop using numbers to make claims about who is better. If Luck threw for 4,500 yards and Stafford only threw for 4,300, that in NO WAY means Luck is better. Just because Tannehill has more TDs then Cam, that doesn't make him better. You need to WATCH and access these guys. Cam got credit for a 70-something yard TD pass to DWill vs the Jets, however, Cam only really accounted for about 2 of those yards. The rest was DWill. Im not saying Cam should have those yards taken away, im simply stating the yards were in no way an indication of what Cam did on that play. Cam's 11 yard laser to Olsen on the final drive vs the Saints was an UNBELIEVABLE throw that not many QBs can make, yet nothing on the box score, or his stats show that. 

 

Point being, watch the guys play, access how they play, how they read defenses, go thru reads, and footwork in the pocket. Do not use numbers to make claims.

 

While I agree with you, sometimes over a season, numbers bear out some things.

 

For instance, imo, overall Cam's accuracy (especially on short passes) has increased dramatically this season. That's reflected in his completion percentage (both overall and for those yards).  So when looking at his completion percentage, you could say his accuracy has probably improved given our scheme hasn't changed.  Ofc, "accuracy" alone is overrated, have to look at a lot more things.

[mcdougal]

You guys need to stop using numbers to make claims about who is better. If Luck threw for 4,500 yards and Stafford only threw for 4,300, that in NO WAY means Luck is better. Just because Tannehill has more TDs then Cam, that doesn't make him better. You need to WATCH and access these guys. Cam got credit for a 70-something yard TD pass to DWill vs the Jets, however, Cam only really accounted for about 2 of those yards. The rest was DWill. Im not saying Cam should have those yards taken away, im simply stating the yards were in no way an indication of what Cam did on that play. Cam's 11 yard laser to Olsen on the final drive vs the Saints was an UNBELIEVABLE throw that not many QBs can make, yet nothing on the box score, or his stats show that. 

 

Point being, watch the guys play, access how they play, how they read defenses, go thru reads, and footwork in the pocket. Do not use numbers to make claims.

 

 

I am not using whole numbers, I am using QB Rating. Derek Carr racked up more yards than Winston in the NCAA, but many would say that Winston was the better passer this year.

 

Andrew Luck did NOT have a better rookie season passing than Newton. He just THREW the ball 100 times more, therefore allowing him to rack up more yards. His QB rating was where Brandon Weedon ended up, at the bottom of the league. 

 

The same reason why Rodgers is a better passer than Stafford, even though Stafford MAY rack up more yards. Rodgers is the ultimate QB because he more often than not has a high passer rating. Efficiency. 

 

49ERS literally had games were they attempted under 20 passes. In fact, I am sure they had multiple games where attempts were under 20. But when given the opportunity Kapernick was MORE than good. His rating (while not the end all) was higher than Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton by season's end.

 

While I can not conclude that Kap is a better passer than those gives, I can CERTAINLY not claim he is worse. Stats, especially holistic stats like QB ratings count for something. 

 

He made the MOST out of his opportunities while paying in a division that has no pushover defenses.  

[ajax4132]

what's kind of disturbing is kaep sat behind smith for a while and is still struggling mightily with this.

 

This actually shocks me, and it makes me wonder how overrated harbaugh is as a qb coach. I understand he has really helped Kaep clean up his fundamentals and technique but when it comes to being a pro qb, Kaep still lags a bit where you can question whether he will be a complete pocket passer.

 

Cam and Kaep are opposites in that regard.

 

Cam has become very good at the pro qb aspect of the game while still having some mechanical inconsistency

 

Kaep has developed mechanical consistency while still lacking in the pro qb aspect of the game

[KJ89]

I just made a peanut butter and egg sandwich and wish to warn you all never to try it.

[rko396]

While I agree with you, sometimes over a season, numbers bear out some things.

 

For instance, imo, overall Cam's accuracy (especially on short passes) has increased dramatically this season. That's reflected in his completion percentage (both overall and for those yards).  So when looking at his completion percentage, you could say his accuracy has probably improved given our scheme hasn't changed.  Ofc, "accuracy" alone is overrated, have to look at a lot more things.

 

of course numbers can be used as indicators in certain situations, but generally speaking, users on this site just throw out exact numbers as claims to "why something is.....". If Romo has 2 TDs and 11 Picks in his last 6 games, yes, clearly that can be looked at and a problem can be seen. Once the ball leaves a QBs hands, the play is over from his perspective. Sometimes a terrible throw ends up in a TD (like Nick Foles about 7 times this year), and sometimes amazing throws get picked off due to WR bobbles or wrong routes, slipping, etc. I know YOU'RE not doing it, but way to many people look at numbers to make decisions, I was simply trying to point that out

[Rules&Regulations]

This actually shocks me, and it makes me wonder how overrated harbaugh is as a qb coach. I understand he has really helped Kaep clean up his fundamentals and technique but when it comes to being a pro qb, Kaep still lags a bit where you can question whether he will be a complete pocket passer.

Cam and Kaep are opposites in that regard.

Cam has become very good at the pro qb aspect of the game while still having some mechanical inconsistency

Kaep has developed mechanical consistency while still lacking in the pro qb aspect of the game

HC has to delegate. It'd be difficult to pin Kaepernicks slow growth on Harbaugh as a QB coach since he, more than likely, isn't the one doing the majority of the QB development.

[CatMan72]

You have to consider the context of what QB's are being asked to do before making any comparison and Cam is being asked to play as a much more traditional QB in our offense. He's expected to stand in the pocket and make several reads on much more complex and varied route combinations. 

 

Anyone who really understands football understands Cam is being asked to do MUCH more as a passer than Kaep is being asked to do. It's a credit to Harbaugh and his staff to have been able to scheme around Kaep's glaring deficiencies as well as they have, just as they were able to scheme around Smith's deficiencies and transform him into a successful QB. 

[ajax4132]

HC has to delegate. It'd be difficult to pin Kaepernicks slow growth on Harbaugh as a QB coach since he, more than likely, isn't the one doing the majority of the QB development.

 

True

 

[ajax4132]

You have to consider the context of what QB's are being asked to do before making any comparison and Cam is being asked to play as a much more traditional QB in our offense. He's expected to stand in the pocket and make several reads on much more complex and varied route combinations. 

 

Anyone who really understands football understands Cam is being asked to do MUCH more as a passer than Kaep is being asked to do. It's a credit to Harbaugh and his staff to have been able to scheme around Kaep's glaring deficiencies as well as they have, just as they were able to scheme around Smith's deficiencies and transform him into a successful QB. 

It is much better for Cam in the short and long term