Shula Play-off Solution

[tiger7_88]

I'm not an expert at evaluating effort. But I did see Mike Tolbert and Richie Brockel wide open on the check down. I mean they could have caught the ball with no one in ten yards.

Oh I see... Cam was supposed to ASSUME that Lafell was loafing on the route and check down immediately.

Makes sense.

[The Huddler]

It just goes to show that we need to be thinking WR this offseason. Without smith, we are below avaerage. Smith comming close to the end of his run, its time to be thinking of a true #1 Wr.

Whatever way Gettleman can fill these offensive holes. I know we would like a corner, but out defense is top 3. We have the ability to produce with less on that side of the ball. This isnt the case on offense.

[panthers55]

It's the playcalling because we don't help out with short passes and getting players like our RBs and Ginn in space with short passes and screens that often.

 

When we do execute screens they usually go for very big gains.  I think we had like 90 yards on 3 screens yesterday, and one was just a terrible playcall on 3rd and long.

 

Also, we have played a bunch of Rex Ryan defenses, but keep in mind we're likely going to need to face some combination of SF, SEA, and NO defenses this postseason again. We're only likely to get 1 game against a 'cupcake' D, and Atlanta's D was supposed to be cupcake level and we still struggled.

How many times do you think Cam comes to the line and changes a play? How mnay times does Cam come to the li e with multiple options and chooses what he does. How many times does Cam still hold the ball and not hit the first option. Sure Shula could do better but all we see is the result of the play not what was called or what should be executed just how it went. Sometimes there is a big difference from what happened versus what should have happened.

[mav1234]

How many times do you think Cam comes to the line and changes a play? How mnay times does Cam come to the li e with multiple options and chooses what he does. How many times does Cam still hold the ball and not hit the first option. Sure Shula could do better but all we see is the result of the play not what was called or what should be executed just how it went. Sometimes there is a big difference from what happened versus what should have happened.

 

The times when it's obvious Cam changes a play, it's almost always for a big gain.

 

I do not know how many times he chooses the play.  None of us do. That doesn't support anything in an argument, and relies on blind faith in Shula as having called the right plays, and puts the blame on Cam for poor playcalls.  I don't think that makes a lot of sense, since in the 2m offenses and when he has more of his own choice the offense works much better than in our typical offensive sets, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

The times when it's obvious Cam changes a play, it's almost always for a big gain.

 

I do not know how many times he chooses the play.  None of us do. That doesn't support anything in an argument, and relies on blind faith in Shula as having called the right plays, and puts the blame on Cam for poor playcalls.  I don't think that makes a lot of sense, since in the 2m offenses and when he has more of his own choice the offense works much better than in our typical offensive sets, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

most offenses look light years better in a 2 minute offense.

 

every casual fan always asks "where the fug was this all game?" when a struggling offense switches to a 2 minute offense and moves the ball downfield.

[KendrickPanther]

The times when it's obvious Cam changes a play, it's almost always for a big gain.

 

I do not know how many times he chooses the play.  None of us do. That doesn't support anything in an argument, and relies on blind faith in Shula as having called the right plays, and puts the blame on Cam for poor playcalls.  I don't think that makes a lot of sense, since in the 2m offenses and when he has more of his own choice the offense works much better than in our typical offensive sets, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

You don't need to place blame or praise anywhere. The point is admitting we have no idea what we are talking about.

[panthers55]

The times when it's obvious Cam changes a play, it's almost always for a big gain.

 

I do not know how many times he chooses the play.  None of us do. That doesn't support anything in an argument, and relies on blind faith in Shula as having called the right plays, and puts the blame on Cam for poor playcalls.  I don't think that makes a lot of sense, since in the 2m offenses and when he has more of his own choice the offense works much better than in our typical offensive sets, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

What my response suggests that it is easy to see what happens on the field and decide who is at fault or what the problem is when it isn't as obvious as you want it to be. It reminds me of all the blame Rivera got and he was deemed the problem and now is a candidate for coach of the year. Sure he went for it on 4th down a bunch more but otherwise is not that different from the first of the year.

Cam gets just as much blame or praise for the playcalling since he gets to actually see the defensively lineup and change the play to what he can pull off. He can audibilize out of any play if he wants.

If he is always making the right choices then why aren't we more productive. He has the option to change the play at any time. What makes no sense is blaming Shula and pretending as if Cam doesn't have any say in things. He runs the offense and calls a bunch of the plays during each game. He has more input than any other player on the team.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

If he is always making the right choices then why aren't we more productive. He has the option to change the play at any time. What makes no sense is blaming Shula and pretending as if Cam doesn't have any say in things. He runs the offense and calls a bunch of the plays during each game.

 

this is going to be hard for some people to swallow since they can't comprehend the idea that newton hasn't developed the football IQ of brees, manning, and brady.

[mav1234]

What my response suggests that it is easy to see what happens on the field and decide who is at fault or what the problem is when it isn't as obvious as you want it to be. It reminds me of all the blame Rivera got and he was deemed the problem and now is a candidate for coach of they year. Sure he went for it on 4th down a bunch more but otherwise is the not that different from the first of the year.

Cam gets just as much blame or praise for the playcalling since he gets to actually see the defensively lineup and change the play to what he can pull off. He can audibilize out of any play if he wants.

If he is always making the right choices then why aren't we more productive. He has the option to change the play at any time. What makes no sense is blaming Shula and pretending as if Cam doesn't have any say in things. He runs the offense and calls a bunch of the plays during each game.

 

Rivera was blamed because he made overly conservative decisions regularly.  The winning streak began when he bucked that trend.  He's been a little more conservative again lately but he's still managed to win the close games.  I don't think it's fair to say Rivera's conservative attitude was never the problem.

 

I don't know that Cam is always making the right choices, but if Cam is always audibling into poor playcalls, the OC and QB Coach SHOULD do something.  I don't have any clue if that's the case but that seems to be your implication.

 

 

You don't need to place blame or praise anywhere. The point is admitting we have no idea what we are talking about.

 

We already admit that.  there's no point in having a discussion if we just assume we can't possibly know anything.  This is a football forum, this is what we do :P

[mav1234]

I don't think this is "all on Shula", I think our players (including Cam at times) aren't executing... but I think the playcalls aren't doing anyone any favors.

[caatfan]

Shula makes some good calls. At other times you scratch your head and ask WTF? But we don't always know when a play gets changed at the line, so IMO it's too soon to rate him as an OC.

[panthers55]

 

Rivera was blamed because he made overly conservative decisions regularly.  The winning streak began when he bucked that trend.  He's been a little more conservative again lately but he's still managed to win the close games.  I don't think it's fair to say Rivera's conservative attitude was never the problem.

 

I don't know that Cam is always making the right choices, but if Cam is always audibling into poor playcalls, the OC and QB Coach SHOULD do something.  I don't have any clue if that's the case but that seems to be your implication.

 

 

Like you said, Rivera is being just as conservative as when he was being criticized but we are winning which covers up a lot of things. I figure that his conservatism wasn't the problem. His going for it was more about showing confidence in the offense and in Cam which is what paid big dividends. Now he can be more conservative when needed without it appearing as if he doesn't trust the offense to perform.

 

As for Cam audibilizing into bad plays, I don't think that is the case at all. Most of the time he can see the defensive scheme and change the call into something more likely to work.  After all isn't that the reason that quarterbacks audibilize in the first place. I just don't think that it is as simple as blaming one or the other. It is a combination of coaching, executing, gameplanning, etc. Everyone has some blame when things go wrong and some praise when they go right. 

[panthers55]

I don't think this is "all on Shula", I think our players (including Cam at times) aren't executing... but I think the playcalls aren't doing anyone any favors.

I think the play calling allows Cam to do his thing and  he has a lot of input.  I think it is very friendly to him.

[mav1234]

Like you said, Rivera is being just as conservative as when he was being criticized but we are winning which covers up a lot of things. I figure that his conservatism wasn't the problem. His going for it was more about showing confidence in the offense and in Cam which is what paid big dividends. Now he can be more conservative when needed without it appearing as if he doesn't trust the offense to perform.

 

As for Cam audibilizing into bad plays, I don't think that is the case at all. Most of the time he can see the defensive scheme and change the call into something more likely to work.  After all isn't that the reason that quarterbacks audibilize in the first place. I just don't think that it is as simple as blaming one or the other. It is a combination of coaching, executing, gameplanning, etc. Everyone has some blame when things go wrong and some praise when they go right. 

 

I think we all realize everyone takes some blame, and everyone gets some praise, but the difference is in how much you think the current struggling on offense could be helped by different play calls versus personnel versus Cam just not being at a level yet where he can run an offense like Shula wants given what we have (how some people seem to be approaching this)