Panthers camp countdown Defensive line critical

[bleys]

Beason was a rookie taking over at MLB.....he is suppose to be confused and think stuff is complicated in that situation. That doesn't mean anything except the reality of the NFL for a rookie.

Trgo can get a job as a DC. Carolina offered it to him and HE SAID no. Funny, if listening to you....you would think Trgo got fired. Fox and the Panthers unload the whole D staff and save face with Trgo, it's not unheard of and thinking this is an impossible scenario isn't a strong take for you. I didn't say Trgo was fired.. But to assume he cut the mustard and didn't want a job with John Fox, because of "Fox Ball" is "real and legit"...?

Trgo doesn't stink at play calling. He is calling what Fox wants. When Trgo has had the pieces to run a Fox defense he has had some pretty good ones. That is why Fox wanted him back. Both the OC and DC did and will call plays based on what FOX wants.....yet, YOU like to blame them for what has been a consistant approach on both sides under Fox (through various coordinators). Fox deserves the credit and blame.....the coordinators are just scapegoats when things go bad. It is Fox. The years in Carolina fullly support that.

lmao.. so Fox was in his ear during games playcalling? Trgo talking about over complicating things is ignored?

so youre saying fox did nothing with the d after this muthfuga said he did......horse poo, he controls this team like he said," im the head dick i can do that."he underlined his dc and oc while they were here,now his former oc has started a whole new fad for the game. the gayphins compared to what we had in carolina while he was here, we could have had a top notched offense if only fox would not have been too conservative. he has no killer insticnt.every game plan that trgo had on the sunday fox looked and oked it.to say he did not do anything is just flat out retarded.

we have no killer offense? the dolphins are great? I said Fox did NOTHING with the d?

troll in the making?

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I'm done with this... lol

[rayzor]

trgo was someone that should have been micromanaged because what he did didn't work. he was the problem.

i fully believe that the conditions of trgo coming back were so undesirable by design that he opted not to.

trgo was too complicated and what he did didn't fit the players.

did you ever think that the reason that trgo decided not to come back was because he was having the power taken away? trgo was the problem. he had been for a long time. many of us have been shouting that for years.

[bleys]

Beason was a rookie taking over at MLB.....he is suppose to be confused and think stuff is complicated in that situation. That doesn't mean anything except the reality of the NFL for a rookie.

Trgo can get a job as a DC. Carolina offered it to him and HE SAID no. Funny, if listening to you....you would think Trgo got fired.

Trgo doesn't stink at play calling. He is calling what Fox wants. When Trgo has had the pieces to run a Fox defense he has had some pretty good ones. That is why Fox wanted him back. Both the OC and DC did and will call plays based on what FOX wants.....yet, YOU like to blame them for what has been a consistant approach on both sides under Fox (through various coordinators). Fox deserves the credit and blame.....the coordinators are just scapegoats when things go bad. It is Fox. The years in Carolina fullly support that.

lmao.. so Fox was in his ear during games playcalling? Trgo saying himself the schemes were over complicated are going ignored? And don't sit there and act like "we" is important... Football is all about appearance. Fox and Richardson never throw people under the bus.. I never said Trgo was fired, but to think I'm crazy for thinking he was gone regardless, is harder to believe..

Edit: and if you read what Beason was referring to, you might understand why he was saying it... On top of that, for a Rookie, he was far from confused... Way to create something out of nothing... Thanks for trying though.

so youre saying fox did nothing with the d after this muthfuga said he did......horse poo, he controls this team like he said," im the head dick i can do that."he underlined his dc and oc while they were here,now his former oc has started a whole new fad for the game. the gayphins compared to what we had in carolina while he was here, we could have had a top notched offense if only fox would not have been too conservative. he has no killer insticnt.every game plan that trgo had on the sunday fox looked and oked it.to say he did not do anything is just flat out retarded.

we have no killer offense? the dolphins are great? I said Fox did NOTHING with the d?

troll in the making?

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I'm done with this... If this is all you guys can present, then no hard feelings, believe what you will, but try not to crucify them too much in the future... =)

[DaCityKats]

fox comes to them and say this is what i want to do this week....there job is to come up with a g plan around what FOX wants to do.it's not hard, so if trgo wants to play his best corner on the opposing team best wr, it has to go threw Foxy first...i like him as a coach but his philsophy sucks and he is way to conservative.but he is our coach so i back him 100000000000000000000000000000%.

[DaCityKats]

far from troll...you the one that said the gayphins were great....lol

[bleys]

fox comes to them and say this is what i want to do this week....there job is to come up with a g plan around what FOX wants to do.it's not hard, so if trgo wants to play his best corner on the opposing team best wr, it has to go threw Foxy first...i like him as a coach but his philsophy sucks and he is way to conservative.but he is our coach so i back him 100000000000000000000000000000%.

if you can prove any of this just by logic alone, I'll be somewhat impressed....

For example, "Trgo prefers scheme over anything else, therefore Trgo wouldn't want Gamble on the #1 WR, but instead let the scheme take care of the WR"... oh, wait.. there's one flaw in your logic...

far from troll...you the one that said the gayphins were great....lol

would love for you to tell me where I said that..... wow. This must stop now. Seriously....

[CRA]

lmao.. so Fox was in his ear during games playcalling? Trgo saying himself the schemes were over complicated are going ignored? And don't sit there and act like "we" is important... Football is all about appearance. Fox and Richardson never throw people under the bus.. I never said Trgo was fired, but to think I'm crazy for thinking he was gone regardless, is harder to believe..

we have no killer offense? the dolphins are great? I said Fox did NOTHING with the d?

troll in the making?

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I'm done with this... If this is all you guys can present, then no hard feelings, believe what you will, but try not to crucify them too much in the future... =)

Trgo entire defense he builds every season is Fox's defense....not the defense he thinks they should be running. That is why he was the DC. What is so hard about grasping that.......?

you don't say he was fired but you mindset is that off him being fired based on your posts. Fox wanted him back b/c he has always run exactly what Fox wants....sometimes it is Foxy enough and Fox steps in.

now you are calling me a troll for having an opinion that puts the blame on Fox and not on the coordinators over the years? Lame.

Bye.

[DaCityKats]

anybody who has ever played the sport knows this.the head says what he wants and you go out and do what he wants.oc and dc cant just run anything they have to get approval from the head.my logic is youre a dick.

[bleys]

Trgo entire defense he builds every season is Fox's defense....not the defense he thinks they should be running. That is why he was the DC. What is so hard about grasping that.......?

you don't say he was fired but you mindset is that off him being fired based on your posts. Fox wanted him back b/c he has always run exactly what Fox wants....sometimes it is Foxy enough and Fox steps in.

now you are calling me a troll for having an opinion that puts the blame on Fox and not on the coordinators over the years? Lame.

Bye.

I never called you a troll.. I clearly called the other guy one.. This is your problem though. You look at one thing and call it "as you see it", when all you're seeing is that one aspect and not how it relates to other aspects...

Take a look at all aspects and then form an opinion. You may get a lot further along... You don't have to listen to what I'm saying, but you really should try to see what it is I'm telling you. This is a prime example of what you're failing to see...

If you can show me where anyone said it isn't "Foxy's defense", because he puts his stamp on it, then I'll get you $100.. What you fail to read is that Trgo is the one responsible for taking care of the defense, schemes and all... Fox stepped in when those schemes weren't working. The Offensive scheme is set up by Davidson, but Fox give his philosophy to match (for example) "on 3rd and 13, punt and let the defense get us the ball back"...

This is all obvious stuff... what you are failing to see is the big picture of how it all comes together... The DC and OC run the scheme... They call the plays.. They even input the scheme. I guarantee you Fox has input on that, but that doesn't mean he micromanages everyone to a T. There is really NO TIME for that to happen. Fox is there to put it all together, and WILL step in where needed. Hell, he prob'ly even sits in on meetings on his spare time to give input. He is a head coach, after all.

[CRA]

trgo was someone that should have been micromanaged because what he did didn't work. he was the problem.

i fully believe that the conditions of trgo coming back were so undesirable by design that he opted not to.

trgo was too complicated and what he did didn't fit the players.

did you ever think that the reason that trgo decided not to come back was because he was having the power taken away? trgo was the problem. he had been for a long time. many of us have been shouting that for years.

Trgo had some good defense under Fox. But he had the players to run what Fox wanted......the problem is Fox always wants to run his D even when he doesn't have the talent to run the same stuff.

You don't know Trgo was the problem anymore so than I know Fox is the problem.....they are both pure opinions based small bits of information. Most that follow football lean more towards Fox (if you go by media reports that are looking at the same bits of information).

[panthers55]

Beason was a rookie taking over at MLB.....he is suppose to be confused and think stuff is complicated in that situation. That doesn't mean anything except the reality of the NFL for a rookie.

Trgo can get a job as a DC. Carolina offered it to him and HE SAID no. Funny, if listening to you....you would think Trgo got fired.

Trgo doesn't stink at play calling. He is calling what Fox wants. When Trgo has had the pieces to run a Fox defense he has had some pretty good ones. That is why Fox wanted him back. Both the OC and DC did and will call plays based on what FOX wants.....yet, YOU like to blame them for what has been a consistant approach on both sides under Fox (through various coordinators). Fox deserves the credit and blame.....the coordinators are just scapegoats when things go bad. It is Fox. The years in Carolina fullly support that.

Trgo got a contract late after the season was over for one year only. Does that sound like a guy who is on stable ground or who we have committed to?? He was miffed and left, end of story. If Fox wanted him back it would have been given sooner for longer. Couldn't find Meeks contract but it was surely longer than a year.

And Henning and Davidson are nothing alike. Sure some of the plays are the same but philosophically they are world apart.

If you mean that Davidson called running plays or that he and Fox were similar in mindset, of course they are. Why do think Fox hired him? But Davidson had this philosophy before he came here. Look at his bio, he is an offensive linemen. Of course he wants to run the ball.

http://prod.www.panthers.clubs.nfl.com/team/coaches/jeff-davidson/6e7cfaff-c328-4e64-b08c-d3248bea5e13

Fox has no history as OC so how would we know how involved he is. My guess is not very much.

Lets gets to more interesting stuff.

Here are some answers to the questions people posed. How is Davidson different from Henning?

http://armchairgm.wikia.com/New_offensive_coordinator_Davidson_a_messiah_for_Carolina%3F

How has Davidson changed from 2007 to 2008. Well we know he went from a primary zoneblocking to a primary power blocking scheme. Still didn't use the TEs. Used more audibles with a stable quarterback and opened the playbook up a little.

What will this year bring? Expect him to use 3 TEs in short yardage. Expect him to open things up and use more misdirection.

Why do I think he will evolve and change. This is what he said between year 1 and year 2. How much of this actually played out in 2008

http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=663

Doesn't seem to me that he is Fox's puppet. Looks rather that he has a long range plan and is implementing it step by step.

Fox doesn't have the time to micromanage the offense and defense. As it is he works 15 hour days. His job is to see it gets done, not do it.

[panthers55]

Trgo had some good defense under Fox. But he had the players to run what Fox wanted......the problem is Fox always wants to run his D even when he doesn't have the talent to run the same stuff.

You don't know Trgo was the problem anymore so than I know Fox is the problem.....they are both pure opinions based small bits of information. Most that follow football lean more towards Fox (if you go by media reports that are looking at the same bits of information).

I guess the fact that Davidson and Meeks are both quoted numerous times saying that the goal is to fit the scheme to the personnel not the other way around, is completely lost on you?? Look at the Davidson Q and A, I posted in this thread. He refutes your comment directly.

[CRA]

I guess the fact that Davidson and Meeks are both quoted numerous times saying that the goal is to fit the scheme to the personnel not the other way around, is completely lost on you?? Look at the Davidson Q and A, I posted in this thread. He refutes your comment directly.

I can't help it, "talk" and what people say they want to do just doesn't sit well with me. I'm not trying to say they are lying...but until I see a change on Sunday.....it doesn't mean anything.

Bottom line, I have no confidence Fox will let Meeks implement a different philosophy on defense than what Fox has shown he prefers. He may go about it in a different angle than Trgo.....but Fox will have Meeks playing conservative and calling a scheme of plays to not lose ball games. imo. Meeks and Davidson were brought in b/c of there style/mindset/philosophy....it isn't a huge leap from what Fox wants in his OC/DC. That is why he hired them. Fox doesn't want a great defensive mind to come into Carolina and implemet anything new. He wants someone who will run his defense.....not there idea of what Carolina should do. He wants to be safe and he will make sure Meeks is......and Carolina simply doesn't have the talent to play conservative on D anymore.

[bleys]

I can't help it, "talk" and what people say they want to do just doesn't sit well with me. I'm not trying to say they are lying...but until I see a change on Sunday.....it doesn't mean anything.

Bottom line, I have no confidence Fox will let Meeks implement a different philosophy on defense than what Fox has shown he prefers. He may go about it in a different angle than Trgo.....but Fox will have Meeks playing conservative and calling a scheme of plays to not lose ball games. imo. Meeks and Davidson were brought in b/c of there style/mindset/philosophy....it isn't a huge leap from what Fox wants in his OC/DC. That is why he hired them. Fox doesn't want a great defensive mind to come into Carolina and implemet anything new. He wants someone who will run his defense.....not there idea of what Carolina should do. He wants to be safe and he will make sure Meeks is......and Carolina simply doesn't have the talent to play conservative on D anymore.

and that's fine of you to not take things at face value.. When I read that, I sense Davidson is trying to find what works.. It's very clear to me and I have very sound reasons for this. But you are someone of a different mindset that thinks someone's intentions and plans always show up on the field, and I guess what people are trying to explain is a coach/coordinators are trying to find a balance with the personnel they have and a scheme that works.. If you think Fox is the type to put a square peg in a round hole, then that's fine.. We know how you think and appreciate knowing this in the future. It's not a bad thing for you, so it works for you...

When you say, Fox wants to be conservative and safe.. you are 100% correct. Fox may go for it on 4th and 1 at times, but I will agree he will have Davidson (and Davidson will have himself do this) call a draw play when it's 3rd and 10 on your 30 yard line. This philosophy is based on Punt the ball and let the defense get it back. They call this "a game of field position", which is important.

When you say Fox doesn't want, "a great defensive mind to come into Carolina and implemet anything new. He wants someone who will run his defense.....not there idea of what Carolina should do. "

You again, are 100% correct.. No one is here to tell you that Meeks was hired because he ran a 3-4 and Fox wants a 4-3 ran.. Meeks is similar in mindset because he runs a similar defense. All people are trying to explain to you is that a cover 3 (Trgo) is different than a cover 2.. But again, you're right, it's not drastically different. You might not notice much of a difference at all if you aren't aware of those differences... All we are trying to say is that the scheme is changing slightly (cover 2 type of defense, and even then it's a variation of a cover 2.. which can bring up MORE debates)... but you won't be seeing a drastic change.

You will also be seeing more swarming to the ball and more focus on technique... this all comes into play with why people are saying this is a change. Trgo had a quote saying "We are going to beat you on technique, not on fundamentals per say." Meeks believes something different..

THese are all factual differences being pointed out in the media and interviews...

The discussion isn't "Fox wants his philosophy, so he hired meeks"... Please don't respond back with just those kind of statements.. THis is obvious. You are exactly right, but you are extremely wrong in thinking that nothing will change. We have a DC, things are going to change.

Will they work? We have to see... It may take time.. But we have a new DC, things won't be exactly the same..

And to say Fox controls all and handcuffs his coordinators is not a realistic argument to run with. Understand where people are coming from... Fox has his philosophy, he's the head coach. Most people understand this. But The coordinators are implementing their philosophies as well.. That's just how the system works... HC's wouldn't need coordinators if that wasn't the case...

Sorry it's so long...