Panthers camp countdown Defensive line critical

[scpanther22]

The fact that this is probably the most heat Jake has taken heading into a season will help him and inspire him to try even harder in what may be his last season. Back to defense, the only problem I see for the defensive line is who to cut coming into the season. Brayton? Lonnie Harvey? Hilee Taylor? Marlon Favorite?

We have a lot of good young talent on the team now and I think we should seriously consider letting Tyler Brayton go to make the 53 man roster. I want to continue developing Hillee Taylor and feel that he would be picked up off of our practice squad if we placed him there.

we gave marlon favorite the biggest bonus of any UDFA in the NFL..he better show up big time.

[CRA]

NO right now you think you have facts. What I have is a conversation with Trgo where he never mentions Fox's meddling.

As for micromanager, again you critics make mountains out of molehills. Fox will get involved when he thinks it is needed and make suggestions and change things, Any manager does that and wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't. But if you have ever worked for a micro manager you know he isn't one. I had one supervisor who had an employee who didn't check in and was where she shouldn't have been. So his solution was to make everyone (45 people) log in where they were and what they were doing every 15 mins through out the day. My last entry or two every day was "filling out this form". That is a micromanager. Fox coming in 5 games into the season to sit in and make suggestions is far from micro-managing. If anything I suspect he should be more involved rather than less when things go wrong.

Fox wanted Trgo to stay. Trgo left. Obivously Fox was content w/ the situation....why do you think Fox as fine w/ Trgo staying? Why do you think Trgo prefered to leave. Trgo wants to be a DC and isn't going to spell it out in the media what it was like working under Fox.....but he dropped enough clues that everyone outside of Carolina understands what really happened.

It is like you block out everything Fox has done in Carolina and only look at last season.....he stepped in last season (which he has the right to do). He has stepped in before last season (which he has the right to do). He has shown through both his current and prior offensive coordinators that he is going to step in and veto things with his lame conservative magic touch (on a consistant basis). Fox is a mirco-manager....and the reality of it is he SHOULD BE one. It is his team and it is VERY clear on both sides of the ball. I'm not knocking Fox for being a micro-manager.....I just putting blame where it belongs and not using Trgo or Henning as scapegoats like some here prefer to do. When our defense gets torched this year b/c Fox will stick w/ what he likes......you will blame it on a "new system" that takes time to learn. The reality of it is Fox is setting the boys up for failure until he gets a DL to play Foxball (defensive foxball is only effective w/ a top tier front 4).

[bleys]

Fox wanted Trgo to stay. Trgo left. Obivously Fox was content w/ the situation....why do you think Fox as fine w/ Trgo staying? Why do you think Trgo prefered to leave. Trgo wants to be a DC and isn't going to spell it out in the media what it was like working under Fox.....but he dropped enough clues that everyone outside of Carolina understands what really happened.

Trgo wants to be a DC, so he settled for DLine coach?

From now on, you're set up like my bank..... After so many overdraws, I have the right and privilege taken away from me...

Links as promised? still waiting...

[DaCityKats]

we shall see.but i doubt that a dcoord just flat out runs what he wants and not get the nod from the head coach.so maybe it was fox, just something to think about.

[bleys]

we shall see.but i doubt that a dcoord just flat out runs what he wants and not get the nod from the head coach.so maybe it was fox, just something to think about.

this is like pointing out the sky is blue... but then making it a big deal like this means Armageddon is right around the corner.. Someone has to call the plays, and this is why Trdo is now a DLine coach instead of a DCoord...

But I'm sure there is something left to argue in all of this...

[CarolinaSock]

If you got a link post it. If you don't then you are done because you don't have a leg to stand on, not because you choose to stop.

Put up or shut up. Until then, I do have facts, you have bupkus, nada, zip.

http://www.heraldonline.com/news/sports/story/1089161.html

"For two years running, head coach John Fox had taken over Trgovac's defensive meetings midseason. In 2007, it was four weeks in before Fox bigfooted his coordinator. Last year it took another month before Fox exerted himself. Asked in 2007 if he was worried about undercutting Trgovac's authority in front of the players, Fox shrugged off the perceived slight, replying: "When you're the head coach you're allowed to do that."

http://www.heraldonline.com/665?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&insiteUserId=ded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913&plckPostId=Blog%3aded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913Post%3a8d9be881-cfea-4b9d-b0cf-d79d700b214b&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

"They ran the same defenses here (the ones John Fox told them to), and Trgovac did it with more success. Ask players and they tell you of the pair, Trgovac's blitzed more and was more aggressive. Del Rio had the benefit of coming in fresh off 2001 (and having Mark Fields), so his feats are remembered more fondly than perhaps they merit."

[CRA]

Trgo wants to be a DC, so he settled for DLine coach?

From now on, you're set up like my bank..... After so many overdraws, I have the right and privilege taken away from me...

Links as promised? still waiting...

Trgo has said he still wants to be a DC. He settled for a DL coach to get out of Carolina. What don't you understand. Fox was happy playing Fox ball....BIG SHOCKER. Trgo decided to go elsewhere.

I'm at work. I ain't googling at work for info you will ignore anyway.....I will find it when I get home...like I already told you. I won't ask you for links....b/c all you want to talk about is current preseason talk.

[bleys]

http://www.heraldonline.com/news/sports/story/1089161.html

"For two years running, head coach John Fox had taken over Trgovac's defensive meetings midseason. In 2007, it was four weeks in before Fox bigfooted his coordinator. Last year it took another month before Fox exerted himself. Asked in 2007 if he was worried about undercutting Trgovac's authority in front of the players, Fox shrugged off the perceived slight, replying: "When you're the head coach you're allowed to do that."

http://www.heraldonline.com/665?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&insiteUserId=ded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913&plckPostId=Blog%3aded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913Post%3a8d9be881-cfea-4b9d-b0cf-d79d700b214b&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

"They ran the same defenses here (the ones John Fox told them to), and Trgovac did it with more success. Ask players and they tell you of the pair, Trgovac's blitzed more and was more aggressive. Del Rio had the benefit of coming in fresh off 2001 (and having Mark Fields), so his feats are remembered more fondly than perhaps they merit."

Unsure how the 2nd link is relevant to Trgo, but am waiting to hear so you can back this statement into a corner....

2nd, it's widely understood and reported that Fox came in after the season started and sat in meetings, etc during the '07 campaign. You're point for posting this doesn't prove Fox micromanages his DC's on top of his OC's and still has time to remember to breathe as so many seem to speculate. What isn't being remembered is how Trgo's mission was to simplify the defense in the following offseason because he over complicated his defenses..

-----------------

CRA, you want links? Do you remember Beason talking with Trgo to remind him that he was over complicating the defenses? I'm sure, that's irrelevant to you since Fox is the one he was talking to, right?

http://www.jonbeason.com/blog.html

Search "paralysis" it'll come up... Yes, links are your friends..

http://carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=645

Simplifying the defense...

Trgo has said he still wants to be a DC. He settled for a DL coach to get out of Carolina. What don't you understand. Fox was happy playing Fox ball....BIG SHOCKER. Trgo decided to go elsewhere.

I'm at work. I ain't googling at work for info you will ignore anyway.....I will find it when I get home...like I already told you. I won't ask you for links....b/c all you want to talk about is current preseason talk.

I understand that Trgo sucks at playcalling and can't get a job at DC.. What don't you understand? read the above as well... if you want links to players who called Trgo out for being the issue...

What do you expect? Fox to sit there in '07 when the defense was playing horrible? You call that micromanaging? lol Lordy, lordy, how does Fox have so much time to Micromanage, what with all the meetings on offense and defense he is sitting in...

The point is, and only is, Trgo is very involved in the schemes and is the only one playcalling.. To sit there and say Fox has the time to micromanage everything under the sun is absurd..

So when you're in the comfort of your home, feel free to back up your statements and not try to derail the convo by calling me out...

[panthers55]

http://www.heraldonline.com/news/sports/story/1089161.html

"For two years running, head coach John Fox had taken over Trgovac's defensive meetings midseason. In 2007, it was four weeks in before Fox bigfooted his coordinator. Last year it took another month before Fox exerted himself. Asked in 2007 if he was worried about undercutting Trgovac's authority in front of the players, Fox shrugged off the perceived slight, replying: "When you're the head coach you're allowed to do that."

http://www.heraldonline.com/665?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&insiteUserId=ded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913&plckPostId=Blog%3aded44479-eff0-4fb5-98bf-9edb9d130913Post%3a8d9be881-cfea-4b9d-b0cf-d79d700b214b&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

"They ran the same defenses here (the ones John Fox told them to), and Trgovac did it with more success. Ask players and they tell you of the pair, Trgovac's blitzed more and was more aggressive. Del Rio had the benefit of coming in fresh off 2001 (and having Mark Fields), so his feats are remembered more fondly than perhaps they merit."

And that is evidence of what? We all agree that Fox through watching gamefilm felt that there were problems in the defense and he came him, sat in on meetings and tried to fix things. As Fox said, that is his job and what he should be doing. Any head coach who doesn't make sure things are going the way he was hired to make them go will not last in this league. You don't make it seven years standing pat and hoping that things get better. That is still a very far cry from micromanaging or meetling in a negative way.

As for Trgo and Del Rio, what does that have to do with the discussion. Trgo has blitzed pretty much the whole time he has been here. The problem is that they are poorly disguised, straight ahead efforts with often poor execution particularly the past 2 years. How many times did we blitz off the corner and wiff on the quarterback completely in 2008? Execution up threw 2006 was pretty good except for the 2004 injury year. In the past 2, not so much. Coincidental to the first comments that Fox was more involved trying to straighten things out. Definitely not a coincidence.

I hope CRA finds something better. That is nothing new or convincing at all.

[mantal]

There was never any doubt that Fox sat in on some defensive meetings. It was admitted from all sides, but it was also admitted from all sides that he didn't run the meeting, that's just not true. But then again, what if he did? He is the head coach and has ultimate responsibility for the team. What if he told Trgo last year we're gonna offer you a job but encourage you to find another so you can save face? I don't have a problem with the head coach recognizing a problem and replacing it, why should anybody else? John Fox plays close to the vest and that's one of the things I like the most about him. It seems to rub some of the other posters wrong, they apparently want his social security number and kitchen scheme, etc.

[DaCityKats]

this is like pointing out the sky is blue... but then making it a big deal like this means Armageddon is right around the corner.. Someone has to call the plays, and this is why Trdo is now a DLine coach instead of a DCoord...

But I'm sure there is something left to argue in all of this...

so youre saying fox did nothing with the d after this muthfuga said he did......horse poo, he controls this team like he said," im the head dick i can do that."he underlined his dc and oc while they were here,now his former oc has started a whole new fad for the game. the gayphins compared to what we had in carolina while he was here, we could have had a top notched offense if only fox would not have been too conservative. he has no killer insticnt.every game plan that trgo had on the sunday fox looked and oked it.to say he did not do anything is just flat out retarded.

[bleys]

yeah, I'm pretty much done with this thread and the Jake thread.. Maybe I'll follow threw with that this time around.. lol

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink....

[CRA]

Unsure how the 2nd link is relevant to Trgo, but am waiting to hear so you can back this statement into a corner....

2nd, it's widely understood and reported that Fox came in after the season started and sat in meetings, etc during the '07 campaign. You're point for posting this doesn't prove Fox micromanages his DC's on top of his OC's and still has time to remember to breathe as so many seem to speculate. What isn't being remembered is how Trgo's mission was to simplify the defense in the following offseason because he over complicated his defenses..

-----------------

CRA, you want links? Do you remember Beason talking with Trgo to remind him that he was over complicating the defenses? I'm sure, that's irrelevant to you since Fox is the one he was talking to, right?

http://www.jonbeason.com/blog.html

Search "paralysis" it'll come up... Yes, links are your friends..

http://carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=645

Simplifying the defense...

I understand that Trgo sucks at playcalling and can't get a job at DC.. What don't you understand? read the above as well... if you want links to players who called Trgo out for being the issue...

What do you expect? Fox to sit there in '07 when the defense was playing horrible? You call that micromanaging? lol Lordy, lordy, how does Fox have so much time to Micromanage, what with all the meetings on offense and defense he is sitting in...

The point is, and only is, Trgo is very involved in the schemes and is the only one playcalling.. To sit there and say Fox has the time to micromanage everything under the sun is absurd..

So when you're in the comfort of your home, feel free to back up your statements and not try to derail the convo by calling me out...

Beason was a rookie taking over at MLB.....he is suppose to be confused and think stuff is complicated in that situation. That doesn't mean anything except the reality of the NFL for a rookie.

Trgo can get a job as a DC. Carolina offered it to him and HE SAID no. Funny, if listening to you....you would think Trgo got fired.

Trgo doesn't stink at play calling. He is calling what Fox wants. When Trgo has had the pieces to run a Fox defense he has had some pretty good ones. That is why Fox wanted him back. Both the OC and DC did and will call plays based on what FOX wants.....yet, YOU like to blame them for what has been a consistant approach on both sides under Fox (through various coordinators). Fox deserves the credit and blame.....the coordinators are just scapegoats when things go bad. It is Fox. The years in Carolina fullly support that.

[mantal]

so youre saying fox did nothing with the d after this muthfuga said he did......horse poo, he controls this team like he said," im the head dick i can do that."he underlined his dc and oc while they were here,now his former oc has started a whole new fad for the game. the gayphins compared to what we had in carolina while he was here, we could have had a top notched offense if only fox would not have been too conservative. he has no killer insticnt.every game plan that trgo had on the sunday fox looked and oked it.to say he did not do anything is just flat out retarded.

You're opinion and I've seen enough of you to know how to take it...