Panthers camp countdown Defensive line critical

[MadHatter]

basically this is what is occuring. There is a group that hold Fox responsible for the lame offensive decisions, lame defensive philosophy and acknowledge that he is a micro-manager.

There is a group that elects to pin everything on whoever just walked out the door.

And then there is a group including you and Carolinarolls that just have no understanding of football and keep posting the same mindless dribble.

[The Link]

what i do know is that our safeties stand to benefit in this scheme...but it will be interesting to see how harris does. He sucks in coverage and will get beat all the time.

Fixed.

[panthers55]

And then there is a group including you and Carolinarolls that just have no understanding of football and keep posting the same mindless dribble.

Exactly, I never see anything but the same reheated drivel. Just one original thought or analysis which shows they know what they are talking about would be refreshing to say the least.

[panthers55]

basically this is what is occuring. There is a group that without any evidence, player acknowledgement or even admission by Trgo or Davidson himself that hold Fox responsible for the lame offensive decisions, lame defensive philosophy and acknowledge that he is a micro-manager.

There is another group that listens to those folks on the team or close to the team that spreads the blame across the board since they know that no one person is to blame nor can you put everything on the top person who has a chain of command and folks responsible for each part and piece. Seems the person in charge of that area should at least get saddled with a good part of it since they were responsible for the results.

Now you actually make sense. Good post!!!

[prowler2k8]

fixed it.

funny thing about that is that it kind of contradicts what you were saying about fox being a front 4 guy. if he only used the front four for rushing then what was peppers doing getting dropped back and why is it that it was davis who gave that giant hit on rodgers that he says was the hardest hit on him?

if fox is a front 4 guy then trgo's scheme wasn't coinciding with fox's philosophy. if that is true then what does that mean about fox having control over the D?

i do believe that meeks relies on the front 4 for pressure on the QB...predominately the DEs. It is a constant pressure on the QB unlike what was required of the DEs with Trgo who tried to get fancy and use overly-complicated schemes. trgo had a technical approach to the game and meeks has an approach that focuses on fundamentals and aggression. there is a huge difference and, again, that is what has been witnessed by those who have been there and seen how things are and compared it with the way things were run under trgo.

even the QB coaching philosophy has changed. it is stressing some very different things. a change in management, even in just attitude, can provoke some very serious changes in performance. in this case, where we have a different language being used and reportedly different schemes (according to the players who would know much more than you).

the players know what they are talking about. they aren't morons and they aren't spin doctors. they are witnessing some very different things going on compared to what was there under trgo. you can deny that all you want but it doesn't change the fact that these things are taking place.

:cheers2:

First of all, great post and a bigh "hallelujah" to the statement in bold print. I'm still trying to figure out what we were paying Mike McCoy for, other than staring at the offensive placard on the sidelines, because he sure as h-e-double hockey sticks didn't help Delhomme improve his game (which is what I thought QB coaches were supposed to do). I'm hoping Scherer can help Delhomme get rid of some poor habits and techniques in his game. If that happens, our offense will be even more potent.

Anyone got any observations on how the QB coaching philosophy has changed, and whether you think this will really help Jake?

[WilkinsonDonnie]

The fact that this is probably the most heat Jake has taken heading into a season will help him and inspire him to try even harder in what may be his last season. Back to defense, the only problem I see for the defensive line is who to cut coming into the season. Brayton? Lonnie Harvey? Hilee Taylor? Marlon Favorite?

We have a lot of good young talent on the team now and I think we should seriously consider letting Tyler Brayton go to make the 53 man roster. I want to continue developing Hillee Taylor and feel that he would be picked up off of our practice squad if we placed him there.

[CRA]

Now you actually make sense. Good post!!!

lame.

again, you have information straight from players that does support the claim Fox micro-managed the D and wouldn't let Trgo run what he thought was best and instead did exactly what Fox wanted......and that was before this past season. You are refusing to acknowledge all information that points to Fox being part of the problem.

I'm done. You refuse to see but only one side (which I am guilty of also). Only difference is I don't have to resort to smart remarks, editing quotes, or posting lame pictures. The difference is I see it as a debate w/ two sides choosing to look and believe certain bits of information. You believe that what you think is fact.

[panthers55]

lame.

again, you have information straight from players that does support the claim Fox micro-managed the D and wouldn't let Trgo run what he thought was best and instead did exactly what Fox wanted......and that was before this past season. You are refusing to acknowledge all information that points to Fox being part of the problem.

I'm done. You refuse to see but only one side (which I am guilty of also). Only difference is I don't have to resort to smart remarks, editing quotes, or posting lame pictures. The difference is I see it as a debate w/ two sides choosing to look and believe certain bits of information.

If you got a link post it. If you don't then you are done because you don't have a leg to stand on, not because you choose to stop.

Put up or shut up. Until then, I do have facts, you have bupkus, nada, zip.

[panthers55]

The fact that this is probably the most heat Jake has taken heading into a season will help him and inspire him to try even harder in what may be his last season. Back to defense, the only problem I see for the defensive line is who to cut coming into the season. Brayton? Lonnie Harvey? Hilee Taylor? Marlon Favorite?

We have a lot of good young talent on the team now and I think we should seriously consider letting Tyler Brayton go to make the 53 man roster. I want to continue developing Hillee Taylor and feel that he would be picked up off of our practice squad if we placed him there.

Yeah lets replace a guy who was a former first rounder who had a career year for us, played great against the run and had 4 1/2 sacks with a guy who was a seventh rounder who had 1 sack in very limited play who admittedly is undersized for an end and has proven little to nothing.

BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!

[CRA]

If you got a link post it. If you don't then you are done because you don't have a leg to stand on, not because you choose to stop.

Put up or shut up. Until then, I do have facts, you have bupkus, nada, zip.

you don't have any facts. You have preseason talk about change.....and I have years of Fox to go off of and actual games. I have a DC that quit, quotes from players that Trgo didn't run what he wanted (which I will post when I get home tonight), Fox admitting that he had to "step in' in some fashion during more than one season, etc. He is a micro-manager and the flaws on the D are b/c of Fox's philosphy(that can be seen on both sides of the ball over the years).

I'm not saying Fox is a bad coach. We have and can win w/ him. But he has some flaws in his coaching......you simply prefer to use a scapegoat and pin it on Trgo.

[panthers55]

you don't have any facts. You have preseason talk about change.....and I have years of Fox to go off of and actual games. I have a DC that quit, quotes from players that Trgo didn't run what he wanted (which I will post when I get home tonight), Fox admitting that he had to "step in' in some fashion during more than one season, etc. He is a micro-manager and the flaws on the D are b/c of Fox's philosphy(that can be seen on both sides of the ball over the years).

I'm not saying Fox is a bad coach. We have and can win w/ him. But he has some flaws in his coaching......you simply prefer to use a scapegoat and pin it on Trgo.

Still no link??? I figured as much.

[CRA]

Still no link??? I figured as much.

I can jump on here and post random thoughts while at work. I will go home tonight and post the link from players in regards to players in prior seasons commenting on what Trgo wanted to do and what Fox had them do.......I'm not searching for them now while at work.

at least I have facts to go find and post when I get home....It was about this time a few years ago players stepped up when people were bashing Trgo......they made it clear that what occured the prior season wasn't Trgo's philosophy but Fox's.

you have nothing put preseason talk....which somehow you want to pretend that is "fact" that Fox doesn't micro-manage what happens.

[bleys]

wow, the last 2 pages got real.. best describes these people better than I could have..

rep to madhatter.... basically, truth...

[panthers55]

I can jump on here and post random thoughts while at work. I will go home tonight and post the link from players in regards to players in prior seasons commenting on what Trgo wanted to do and what Fox had them do.......I'm not searching for them now while at work.

at least I have facts to go find and post when I get home....It was about this time a few years ago players stepped up when people were bashing Trgo......they made it clear that what occured the prior season wasn't Trgo's philosophy but Fox's.

you have nothing put preseason talk....which somehow you want to pretend that is "fact" that Fox doesn't micro-manage what happens.

NO right now you think you have facts. What I have is a conversation with Trgo where he never mentions Fox's meddling.

As for micromanager, again you critics make mountains out of molehills. Fox will get involved when he thinks it is needed and make suggestions and change things, Any manager does that and wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't. But if you have ever worked for a micro manager you know he isn't one. I had one supervisor who had an employee who didn't check in and was where she shouldn't have been. So his solution was to make everyone (45 people) log in where they were and what they were doing every 15 mins through out the day. My last entry or two every day was "filling out this form". That is a micromanager. Fox coming in 5 games into the season to sit in and make suggestions is far from micro-managing. If anything I suspect he should be more involved rather than less when things go wrong.