Once again lets discuss Greg Hardy for a sec

[carpanfan96]

Never know. I just believe that the value of a DE isn't that valuable anymore in today's NFL. The need of an OLB who can rush the QB is higher. Look at Ciff Avril who is as young and productive as Hardy. The man signed a two year contract for 15mil. Sure it was a chance to play for a winning team but he wasn't drawing much interests elsewhere too. Teams rather go the draft route to develop one than overpaying these guys.

 

 

You see Cliff Avril on this list????

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/sigprp43de.png

 

 

 

Nope, but #2 and #5 are Panthers. It's not just about sacks, it's about run defense, pressures and QB hits... 

[jasonluckydog]

we can trade down and get Clowney if Hardy doesnt sign with us..

 

I love Hardy and his attitude but dis is business.

[MasterAwesome]

Someone just posted something in here less than a week ago where PFF had Hardy as I believe the #4 4-3 DE in the league in terms of QB pressure (with 50ish hurries). Not to mention he is damn stout against the run too.

[carolina-chuck]

You see Cliff Avril on this list????

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/sigprp43de.png

Nope, but #2 and #5 are Panthers. It's not just about sacks, it's about run defense, pressures and QB hits...

Avril does more than just get to the QB. My point is teams rather draft guys than to overpay. GM has more leverage than players unlike the NBA.

[pantherclaw]

Hardy is a huge part of what this defense does.

[carpanfan96]

Avril does more than just get to the QB. My point is teams rather draft guys than to overpay. GM has more leverage than players unlike the NBA.

 

 

What run defense? Deflections? 

 

Over the pas three seasons, Hardy has better Run stuff stats, tackle stats, and more pass deflections. The only difference between them is that Avril has 6 more sacks and more FF over the past three seasons. Considering Hardy wasn't a starter in one of those seasons and has put up better pressure and RS stats over those seasons, his top 5 4-3 DE ranking is well earned. 

[brandon_87]

It would be nice to see a player like Hardy take a super low contract so we had cap space to sign more help to better the team as a whole, but in this day and age, nobody cares for the game, its all money over winning

[carolina-chuck]

What run defense? Deflections?

Over the pas three seasons, Hardy has better Run stuff stats, tackle stats, and more pass deflections. The only difference between them is that Avril has 6 more sacks and more FF over the past three seasons. Considering Hardy wasn't a starter in one of those seasons and has put up better pressure and RS stats over those seasons, his top 5 4-3 DE ranking is well earned.

Avril has just as many tackles as Hardy. Very similar stats. He also wasn't a day 1 starter and was contributing highly. He's not just the pass rusher Seattle is using him this season. He's playing it due to the depth they have there with Red, Clemons and Bennett. He played the run very well in Detroit.

And you're still missing the damn point. The damn point is, GMs are playing hard ball with players these days. Avril was the projected no1 DE last offseason. And wasn't able to generate much interests at all. I was using that as an example. Not to argue that he's better than Hardy or not. Get the point.

[MasterAwesome]

Avril has just as many tackles as Hardy. Very similar stats. He also wasn't a day 1 starter and was contributing highly. He's not just the pass rusher Seattle is using him this season. He's playing it due to the depth they have there with Red, Clemons and Bennett. He played the run very well in Detroit.

And you're still missing the damn point. The damn point is, GMs are playing hard ball with players these days. Avril was the projected no1 DE last offseason. And wasn't able to generate much interests at all. I was using that as an example. Not to argue that he's better than Hardy or not. Get the point.

Avril isn't necessarily a great example considering he was offered a 3 year $30 million dollar extension from Detroit but turned it down. Yeah he tried to play hardball and ended up losing out on quite a bit of money, but the point is that a team did offer him a huge contract. There will be some team that offers a huge contract to Hardy, whether that's us or not remains to be seen. Avril is a victim of his own greed, not a lack of interest. Pass rushers will always be in high demand in this league, that's why they're the most sought-after/highly paid position after franchise QBs and franchise LTs.

[pantherj]

Frank Alexander is terrible imo. He's stiff, slow, and never near the QB. I'm not sure what kind of money Hardy will want, but he's hired CJ's agent in the hopes of getting a huge contract. It's not going to happen imo. He's a very good DE, but our offense and secondary are a mess and we can't afford to throw too much money at him.

[carolina-chuck]

Avril isn't necessarily a great example considering he was offered a 3 year $30 million dollar extension from Detroit but turned it down. Yeah he tried to play hardball and ended up losing out on quite a bit of money, but the point is that a team did offer him a huge contract. There will be some team that offers a huge contract to Hardy, whether that's us or not remains to be seen. Avril is a victim of his own greed, not a lack of interest. Pass rushers will always be in high demand in this league, that's why they're the most sought-after/highly paid position after franchise QBs and franchise LTs.

I agree he fell victim to his own greed and Detroit did offer him a good contract. But that came from Detroit who didn't know the market value for Avril. If they had knew that he market was so low, Avril wouldn't even been able to sniff that offer in the first place.

[carpanfan96]

Avril has just as many tackles as Hardy. Very similar stats. He also wasn't a day 1 starter and was contributing highly. He's not just the pass rusher Seattle is using him this season. He's playing it due to the depth they have there with Red, Clemons and Bennett. He played the run very well in Detroit.

And you're still missing the damn point. The damn point is, GMs are playing hard ball with players these days. Avril was the projected no1 DE last offseason. And wasn't able to generate much interests at all. I was using that as an example. Not to argue that he's better than Hardy or not. Get the point.

 

 

Like someone else pointed out he got interest and was offered a 10 million a year deal. Also Avril has been a starter for the last 5-6 seasons, except for his use in Seattle. I used the last three because that was when Hardy started to get playing time. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/11326/cliff-avril

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13377/greg-hardy

 

Something people fail to realize is that Hardy has really, really good numbers since becoming a starter.

 

If you just go off since he became a starter then his numbers have been ridiculous. 

 

107 tackles, 18 sacks, 90+ pressures, 3 FF, and 3 PD's in 28 games. 

 

His advanced stats over that time period.... 2012-2013 season with 60 total pressures "QB hits, Pressures and Sacks"

 

This season is more of the same and his pressure stats are in the top 5 in the league once again. 

 

So just like Avril, he'll get a massive 10+ million dollar a year deal easily. Probably higher because of how high his stats and impact have been since becoming a starter. 

 

I'd say that bidding will start at around 10 a season and he'll end up getting a deal worth over 12+ million a season from somewhere like Oakland and they won't be overpaying for him. 

[TreFoPanther]

Hardy is a huge part on this defense. Our defense would look very different next year without him next year. IMO, he's worth 8 mil a year (5yr/40). But I can't see Gman offering anything more than a 7mil contract, possibly 6mil for a 2year contract. That'd be my dream scenario. Anything more than 8 mil, I'd let him walk. Use that money toward an OT in FA and fans will think that they hate this idea but bring Peppers back if he's willing to come back. You can always find DE through the draft and develop one for the future too.

You're a dumbass, Gettleman already offered Hardy 8 million a year over the next 4 years and he turned it down

[General_Purr]

The thing I like about Hardy is when I watch games.. He is ussually in EVERY play. Thats great to have a high motor guy.. its great for the entire team. But I do agree w the money. Thats the ONLY thing I am worried about with him is him getting a HUGE paycheck and nothing left to build with.. I think we should Re Sign him for sure... but rewarding him with a insane money contract is dumb.. he is still young and has a lot to prove. he will be a great panther. I trust they will be smart w his contract. They know we have to keep building this team up.