How many sacks has 77 given up on the year?

[KendrickPanther]

There is no point to argue with you, because you are currently ignoring half the picture.

 

You completely ignore Byron Bell's performance last night, and throughout the season, and go straight to Cam.

 

Information has been provided to you, there is even a thread on page 1 about Bell.

 

 

Yeah I agree his is a liability. But we know he is a liability. The way you mask a bad line is by throwing the ball before the pass rush gets there. You guys are arguing the receivers are all covered. I'm arguing you throw to the window with anticipation and rhythm. To which you retort "lol Cam would have 4 ints". The good QBs do it all the time. If you are happy with Cam throwing for 200 yards on mediocre teams and using his legs to tack on 60 yards then fine. I want Cam to make the hard throws. I want him to pick apart defenses. I choose not to blame the role players. You always like to say we never draft Cam weapons. We drafted Cam. He is the weapon.

[TheRed]

Yeah I agree his is a liability. But we know he is a liability. The way you mask a bad line is by throwing the ball before the pass rush gets there. You guys are arguing the receivers are all covered. I'm arguing you throw to the window with anticipation and rhythm. To which you retort "lol Cam would have 4 ints". The good QBs do it all the time. If you are happy with Cam throwing for 200 yards on mediocre teams and using his legs to tack on 60 yards then fine. I want Cam to make the hard throws. I want him to pick apart defenses. I choose not to blame the role players. You always like to say we never draft Cam weapons. We drafted Cam. He is the weapon.

 

Every QB is going to need at minimum, a decent pass blocking OL in order to do those things.

 

Did you see how well Drew Brees picked apart our defense last night when he had time, versus how he did against the Seahawks?

 

With every post you make, you only prove just how strong your biases are in regards to this discussion.

[KendrickPanther]

Every QB is going to need at minimum, a decent pass blocking OL in order to do those things.

 

Did you see how well Drew Brees picked apart our defense last night when he had time, versus how he did against the Seahawks?

 

With every post you make, you only prove just how strong your biases are in regards to this discussion.

 

There is no bias. What would I be bias against? I expect our First overall QB to be the star and the 400k a year undrafted tackle to suck.

[LinvilleGorge]

Yeah I agree his is a liability. But we know he is a liability. The way you mask a bad line is by throwing the ball before the pass rush gets there. You guys are arguing the receivers are all covered. I'm arguing you throw to the window with anticipation and rhythm. To which you retort "lol Cam would have 4 ints". The good QBs do it all the time. If you are happy with Cam throwing for 200 yards on mediocre teams and using his legs to tack on 60 yards then fine. I want Cam to make the hard throws. I want him to pick apart defenses. I choose not to blame the role players. You always like to say we never draft Cam weapons. We drafted Cam. He is the weapon.

 

Without Cam, we have the worst offense in the NFL.  The right side of our OL is nonexistent, we have no running game other than Cam's scrambling, our WR corps is near the bottom of the league, and our #1 option is a borderline top 10 TE.  That ain't good.  What QB are you plugging into that situation and expecting better results than Cam is producing?  Most of the "good QBs" you're talking about would likely be on IR right now from the beating they'd be taking.

[TheRed]

There is no bias. What would I be bias against? I expect our First overall QB to be the star and the 400k a year undrafted tackle to suck.

 

The quarterback is only going to be as successful as the players they build around him. It's the same for every NFL franchise.

 

So far, we have not done that nearly enough as we could have.

 

I suppose our offense currently being composed of exactly zero starters through the draft since Cam entered the league is a good thing?

[KendrickPanther]

Without Cam, we have the worst offense in the NFL.  The right side of our OL is nonexistent, we have no running game other than Cam's scrambling, our WR corps is near the bottom of the league, and our #1 option is a borderline top 10 TE.  That ain't good.  What QB are you plugging into that situation and expecting better results than Cam is producing?  Most of the "good QBs" you're talking about would likely be on IR right now from the beating they'd be taking.

 

Yeah I agree with most of that. But our offense isn't that bad. We are only averaging a couple points less than Cam's first two years. We don't have an elite receiver but they are all good enough.Our Running backs played well last night. No one was under 4ypc. We abandoned the run which was a mistake. I wouldn't really plug anyone else in. I just want Cam to play better. I'm not sitting here saying Cam sucks. I'm saying we go as he goes. Blaming the tuba player is convenient but the conductor runs the show.

[Ken]

Bell gave up 3 sacks, 1 hit and 4 hurries...(also 1 holding penalty)

 

Cam's fault guys. 

[beastson]

Its so not that simple Kendrick. We moved from a aerial attack offense with Cam/Chud to a ball-controlling clock management type of offense. Add the receiving options, of course Cam numbers are down. Focus on the system, not just Cam. And you're expecting too much from Cam just cause he was number 1 pick, look at his college systems. No QB is picking defenses apart in their 3rd year the way Brady and them is doing in their 10th+ season. You should be happy we haven't implemented a college system to baby him like several other young QB's

[MadHatter]

PFF doesn't blame lineman for sacks that aren't their fault. When Cam holds the ball for too long they don't downgrade the linemen.

Tgere was at least one sack last night that would go on Cam. He retreated and spun to the outside...right into the DL. Bell took the DE outside and up the field like you are taught.

Thus us just something that you will have to accept with a mobile and tubnibg QB. He sonetkbes ends up in places that the OL do not expect him to be. He will make some huge plays, but will also take a few sacks that might otherwise not gave happened.

I will take it to have his positive plays with his legs.

[Oudaman90]

You guys don't have anything to say except I'm wrong. People that know football agree with me. Go listen to a Greg Cossell talk about Cam.

 

I think I got it now. You want Cam to...

 

-Go through all his progressions, but not all of them because then he would be holding the ball too long since our o-line can't hold their blocks for long.

 

-Use playaction passes, despite the fact our running game wasn't scaring anybody.

 

-Take what the defense gives him...and take shots downfield besides the fact it wasn't really there.

 

-Run the football more...even though its not really his job to.

 

-Throw our weak WR's open, despite them being locked down and not making plays on the ball, without getting INTs.

 

-Play a downfield, aggressive passing style, in spite of our personnel being unable to execute that type of offense.

 

If that sounds very contradictory, that's because it is. If that's all stupid to you, that's because it's what your are asking of Cam. You can't have it both ways. Cam duel threat ability as well as Mike Shula's conservative, ball control playcalling having been masking just how weak our offense is. And it's been working. Good teams will expose this.

 

-

[Oudaman90]

Yeah I agree his is a liability. But we know he is a liability. The way you mask a bad line is by throwing the ball before the pass rush gets there. You guys are arguing the receivers are all covered. I'm arguing you throw to the window with anticipation and rhythm. To which you retort "lol Cam would have 4 ints". The good QBs do it all the time. If you are happy with Cam throwing for 200 yards on mediocre teams and using his legs to tack on 60 yards then fine. I want Cam to make the hard throws. I want him to pick apart defenses. I choose not to blame the role players. You always like to say we never draft Cam weapons. We drafted Cam. He is the weapon.

 

Um, he did throw with anticipation. Alot of times the receivers got knocked off their routes(incompletion to Steve Smith when he got pushed of his route and tried to one hand a short pass from Cam), got locked down with great coverage(Alot of Cam's sacks happened when all of our receivers were completely covered), or the defender made a great play(the incompletion to Ted Ginn when the CB swatted the ball away after it hit Ginn right in his hands). Add to the fact our receiving core doesn't get YAC and you get Cam having mediocre passing days.

 

[KendrickPanther]

Ok, I've said a lot of poo in the past 24 hours and it's all starting to run together....but I'm pretty sure I never said half of that.

 

I want our offense to stay on schedule, riverboat ron never got to dial up a 4th down play because we were always in 4th and long. We were also always in 3rd and long.

 

We need to run the ball, we were able to run it, we got pass happy early and then obviously at the end it was over.

 

Not go through progressions but read the defense. The coverage dictates where the ball goes. If you know the route concepts and you know the coverage than you know there are only a few viable options. You don't look for the open guy, you anticipate him getting open.

 

He doesn't need to run the ball more. He needs to pass the ball quicker, if the pass isn't there he needs to run or throw it away. Just sitting there isn't an option.

 

Our receivers were not locked down but the windows are tight. They are only open for a short amount of time. This is true for most NFL offenses.

 

I do not want a down field and aggressive passing style. It does not fit our personnel. I want 3 steps and throw, or in Cam's case catch, 3 seconds throw. We should not be running 4 verts, make them defend the entire field. We wasted plays going down field last night. We even got guys open a few times but Cam is so worried about turning the ball over he puts it where no one can catch it.

 

 

I think I got it now. You want Cam to...

 

-Go through all his progressions, but not all of them because then he would be holding the ball too long since our o-line can't hold their blocks for long.

 

-Use playaction passes, despite the fact our running game wasn't scaring anybody.

 

-Take what the defense gives him...and take shots downfield besides the fact it wasn't really there.

 

-Run the football more...even though its not really his job to.

 

-Throw our weak WR's open, despite them being locked down and not making plays on the ball, without getting INTs.

 

-Play a downfield, aggressive passing style, in spite of our personnel being unable to execute that type of offense.

 

If that sounds very contradictory, that's because it is. If that's all stupid to you, that's because it's what your are asking of Cam. You can't have it both ways. Cam duel threat ability as well as Mike Shula's conservative, ball control playcalling having been masking just how weak our offense is. And it's been working. Good teams will expose this.

 

-

 

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

He's starting because he has one of the lowest cap figures on the team. There is no one behind him. If you bench Bell next week there is no one....Travis Bond? Somehow we have managed to win 9 games with him. The only difference tonight is Cam was dreadfully slow getting rid of the ball. I mean he was holding it over 4 seconds every drop back. It was a miracle he wasn't sacked more.

Actually you slide chandler to tackle and insert piggy at rg I honestly think that would be a better.lineup

[Oudaman90]

Ok, I've said a lot of poo in the past 24 hours and it's all starting to run together....but I'm pretty sure I never said half of that.

 

I want our offense to stay on schedule, riverboat ron never got to dial up a 4th down play because we were always in 4th and long. We were also always in 3rd and long.

 

We need to run the ball, we were able to run it, we got pass happy early and then obviously at the end it was over.

 

Not go through progressions but read the defense. The coverage dictates where the ball goes. If you know the route concepts and you know the coverage than you know there are only a few viable options. You don't look for the open guy, you anticipate him getting open.

 

He doesn't need to run the ball more. He needs to pass the ball quicker, if the pass isn't there he needs to run or throw it away. Just sitting there isn't an option.

 

Our receivers were not locked down but the windows are tight. They are only open for a short amount of time. This is true for most NFL offenses.

 

I do not want a down field and aggressive passing style. It does not fit our personnel. I want 3 steps and throw, or in Cam's case catch, 3 seconds throw. We should not be running 4 verts, make them defend the entire field. We wasted plays going down field last night. We even got guys open a few times but Cam is so worried about turning the ball over he puts it where no one can catch it.

 

-The offense didn't stay on schedule because as i said, the wide receivers were outmuscled. On the line, on their routes, and while trying to make catches.

 

-We did need to run the ball more, but when your down against an opponant like New Orleans, you won't score fast enough to win the game.

 

-Dude, the receivers were locked down. Heck, one time Smitty was covered by a linebacker. The dbs were in good positions to pick off Cam if he tried to be a hero like he used to in the past.

 

-Shula started off the game with short throws, screens, and laterals. Cam was hitting them too. The only problem was our guys would get brought down as soon as they caught it, and then the Saint's defense started sniffing them out and blowing that up. That led to use kicking field goals and falling behind. Those plays only work when your receivers get YAC. Ours don't do that.

 

-Cam took alot of sacks. What do you expect? the o-line was allowing lots of pressure and our recievers weren't open much. Sure, he could run, which he tried at times...and he still got sacked. Or if he didn't he got the first down. He could have also threw the ball away more, but you know what? Throwing the ball away on third down and getting sacked on third down both leads to punts...so no much difference. What, 4th and 20 as opposed to 4th and 8?