Best damn Essay on Jake Delhomme this Offseason!

[pepaw]

Nobody has ever said IIRC on this board that he was anywhere above average. Now you see it, you get what you expect. In other words, all the posters predict exactly what you just reported, so what's the beef?

You may see that he is average but I don't think everyone on here does. My beef is trying to defend his piss poor decisions on an injury.

[pepaw]

Qb play is very complicated. Due to our system there's a lot of vertical passing which means passes mid and downfield which makes the windows smaller and with it, the margins of error. That leads to more interceptions, but a lot of highlight reel plays.

Delhomme is streaky, but the system Carolina runs isn't conducive to a QB having 70% completion rating and 30 TDs for 10 INTs, it just doesn't happen.

Or for that matter the offensive scheme excusing his inconsistent play.

[frash.exe]

What you do is spend tons of time arguing red herring issues that are totally irrlevant. Whether or not baseball players put more or less or different torque on their arms is irrelevant. Whether he should have recovered or didn't or did is irrelevant as well.

No. Just because you say it is doesn't make it so. Obviously the medical research I presented to you was a little too advanced. It takes a pretty smart person to understand elbow compression is the greatest factor in stressing the ligaments in the elbow. It's funny how you started off comparing the throwing of QBs and Pitchers yourself, and now that I've backed up my claim with a reputable study, has resulted into you backtracking to try to avoid admitting you were wrong.

How many pitchers throw every day in practice all week and have 350 lb guys smashing their arm and trying to kill them on game day everytime they attempt to throw the ball. How many pitchers throw the baseball 40 - 50 yards instead of 60 feet. Plus a footbal weights a ton more than a baseball which could be better or worse.

A conversation between a guy like Pat Kirwin talking to his trainer said that his arm tightened up during the bye week between the regualr season and playoffs. Unless you want to expouse a conspiracy theory which suggsts that making excuses for Delhomme was more important that his professionalism to report the facts accurately. Except that he could have said nothing and everything would have been fine. This revelation was made months after the playoffs in a conversation off the record not the day after the loss when the team and Jake made no excuses.

That's not good enough. Do you exactly know what he meant by "tightened up"? Either way it wasn't his throwing that was the problem against Arizona and Oakland it was his decision making.

The evidence is clear, the first time we played Arizona and he has a passer rating of 122. We have a bye and he has a rating of 12 against a sorry team, then the next game it is 86, followed by a 97 and then a 104.

His last preseason game he has a 129 against NO and after another bye it plummets again to a 39 against a team who earlier in the year he had a 122 against. With the same secondary he torched earlier in the year.

YEA, JAKE WAS HURTIN' THERE TOTALLY!!!! AND I'VE GOT CIRCUMSTANTIAL AT BEST STATISTICAL PATTERNS TO PROVE IT!!!

/panthers55

Ok, back to reality...

Most of those interceptions against Arizona were bad reads, throws into double coverage, forced throws. Don't believe me? Go back and look at the tape.

1st INT: Bad read, didn't look off the zone coverage, didn't see DRC who was reading him. Forced a throw to Smith. Not an erratic pass, a bad read.

2nd INT: Forced a throw to Moose which Gerald Hayes was spying him on, resulting in an easy pick. Delhomme did not see Hayes, he didn't realize Moose wasn't open.

3rd INT: Fake screen the Cards weren't fooled one bit by. May have been a pre-snap read where either Smith or Jake tipped off the defenders that Steve was where he was going.

4th INT: Forced throw in double coverage in the endzone. Smith was CLEARLY not open, he shouldn't have gone there in the first place because there was no chance.

5th INT: Forced throw in double coverage to Moose, yet again. Shouldn't have even gone there. Bad read.

Oakland game...

1st INT: Not an erratic pass at all. He would've hit Smitty in stride. Steve was just ....not open. Coverage by Asomugha. Shouldn't have thrown there.

2nd INT: Smith actually beats 37, Chris Johnson. But when Jake throws he doesn't realize Johnson has safety help over the top. Bad read.

3rd INT: Throw into double coverage to Smith. I mean you have to be Peyton Manning to be able to fit that ball in there. Jake knows he doesn't have that kind of accuracy in the first place, never did before the Tommy John. He's just forcing another throw here.

4th INT: Jake overthrew Hoover (who the Raiders announcer erroneously refered to as King) in the flat (Jake does that frequently) Hoov tipped it and a Raiders defender was in place to catch the deflected ball.

None of these INTs were bad throws, save for the last one which he does a lot. Most of them are forced throws from bad reads. He's not tossing it to the 4th row and checking his elbow after every one of them.

Any fool can see that there is a pattern after a layoff with much lower passer ratings. Then it gets confirmed by a trainer who confidentially admits the issue not in an article or official announcement but a private conversation.

Yea, I completely agree with you, "any fool....", at least you were right about that one. What were the specifics? How much did his arm truly "tighten up". Oh that's right your "proof" is inconclusive at best...

And haters like you go on for pages with red herring arguments when you have absolutely no basis or fact for your allegations that he wasn't hurt. You aren't in the know, aren't a trainer, doctor or have any credentials to refute anything other than a self proclaimed title as a grand arguer.

And slurpers like you go on and on constantly giving benefit of the doubt and trying to back it up with sources with little depth. I'm sorry but I'm just too strict a person to be sold off by some half-assed explanation. Your hope and blind faith took you far enough by itself. This "testimony" by Pat Kirwan is just the icing on the cake.

And you argue that Fox and Jake and folks here are making excuses when the truth is we are just reading and listening to what is being said and what appears obvious to anyone but a hater. You on the other hand have the notion that you are the enlightened one although you have absolutely no basis for your argument. None!

And you have even less of a basis for an argument. "HEY, Pat Kirwan just vaguely alluded to Jake maybe bein' reinjurrreeed!!! Woooweee!!! That's our ACE IN THE HOLE!"

Panthers55 what you sound like is an utter manchild whose pretty much lost the debate and ended up closing his eyes, putting his hands on his ears, shaking his head and started singing incoherently.

All the baseball arguments are irrelevant. The biggest one being that this whole controversy and game occurred 6 months ago. Why people like you want to hang on to it instead of moving on is beyond me. Lets see what happens in 2009 and then make judgements. I don't need to make excuses. So far this season Jake and the Panthers are undefeated, Jake hasn't thrown a pick yet, and he has fat new 42 million contract.

What you have is sour memories and a hater attitude.

And you are just a rabid homer who is just so eager to pardon and has been bought off by Jake's charming personality just like the rest of them and you're so quick to martyr the guy and blame it on something that, if it even did occur, wasn't a factor because at that point his throws would've been erratic. The Panthers aren't undefeated, 0-0 means they never took the field yet, and it doesn't mean a whole lot that he has a fat 42 million dollar contract when he and Fox have a QB/Coach relationship that is borderline unhealthy for a team. What's most likely going to happen is Jake will be the same old player that isn't good enough to get the Panthers a Lombardi and this year he'll only be as good or worse than he's been and soon start his slide into total mediocrity, and this whole big fat contract will end up being an investment bust, and 365 days from now, when I've said "I told you so", you'll probably still be chomping at the bit to find the next cop-out.

[mantal]

No. Just because you say it is doesn't make it so. Obviously the medical research I presented to you was a little too advanced. It takes a pretty smart person to understand elbow compression is the greatest factor in stressing the ligaments in the elbow. It's funny how you started off comparing the throwing of QBs and Pitchers yourself, and now that I've backed up my claim with a reputable study, has resulted into you backtracking to try to avoid admitting you were wrong.

That's not good enough. Do you exactly know what he meant by "tightened up"? Either way it wasn't his throwing that was the problem against Arizona and Oakland it was his decision making.

YEA, JAKE WAS HURTIN' THERE TOTALLY!!!! AND I'VE GOT CIRCUMSTANTIAL AT BEST STATISTICAL PATTERNS TO PROVE IT!!!

/panthers55

Ok, back to reality...

Most of those interceptions against Arizona were bad reads, throws into double coverage, forced throws. Don't believe me? Go back and look at the tape.

1st INT: Bad read, didn't look off the zone coverage, didn't see DRC who was reading him. Forced a throw to Smith. Not an erratic pass, a bad read.

2nd INT: Forced a throw to Moose which Gerald Hayes was spying him on, resulting in an easy pick. Delhomme did not see Hayes, he didn't realize Moose wasn't open.

3rd INT: Fake screen the Cards weren't fooled one bit by. May have been a pre-snap read where either Smith or Jake tipped off the defenders that Steve was where he was going.

4th INT: Forced throw in double coverage in the endzone. Smith was CLEARLY not open, he shouldn't have gone there in the first place because there was no chance.

5th INT: Forced throw in double coverage to Moose, yet again. Shouldn't have even gone there. Bad read.

Oakland game...

1st INT: Not an erratic pass at all. He would've hit Smitty in stride. Steve was just ....not open. Coverage by Asomugha. Shouldn't have thrown there.

2nd INT: Smith actually beats 37, Chris Johnson. But when Jake throws he doesn't realize Johnson has safety help over the top. Bad read.

3rd INT: Throw into double coverage to Smith. I mean you have to be Peyton Manning to be able to fit that ball in there. Jake knows he doesn't have that kind of accuracy in the first place, never did before the Tommy John. He's just forcing another throw here.

4th INT: Jake overthrew Hoover (who the Raiders announcer erroneously refered to as King) in the flat (Jake does that frequently) Hoov tipped it and a Raiders defender was in place to catch the deflected ball.

None of these INTs were bad throws, save for the last one which he does a lot. Most of them are forced throws from bad reads. He's not tossing it to the 4th row and checking his elbow after every one of them.

Yea, I completely agree with you, "any fool....", at least you were right about that one. What were the specifics? How much did his arm truly "tighten up". Oh that's right your "proof" is inconclusive at best...

And slurpers like you go on and on constantly giving benefit of the doubt and trying to back it up with sources with little depth. I'm sorry but I'm just too strict a person to be sold off by some half-assed explanation. Your hope and blind faith took you far enough by itself. This "testimony" by Pat Kirwan is just the icing on the cake.

And you have even less of a basis for an argument. "HEY, Pat Kirwan just vaguely alluded to Jake maybe bein' reinjurrreeed!!! Woooweee!!! That's our ACE IN THE HOLE!"

Panthers55 what you sound like is an utter manchild whose pretty much lost the debate and ended up closing his eyes, putting his hands on his ears, shaking his head and started singing incoherently.

And you are just a rabid homer who is just so eager to pardon and has been bought off by Jake's charming personality just like the rest of them and you're so quick to martyr the guy and blame it on something that, if it even did occur, wasn't a factor because at that point his throws would've been erratic. The Panthers aren't undefeated, 0-0 means they never took the field yet, and it doesn't mean a whole lot that he has a fat 42 million dollar contract when he and Fox have a QB/Coach relationship that is borderline unhealthy for a team. What's most likely going to happen is Jake will be the same old player that isn't good enough to get the Panthers a Lombardi and this year he'll only be as good or worse than he's been and soon start his slide into total mediocrity, and this whole big fat contract will end up being an investment bust, and 365 days from now, when I've said "I told you so", you'll probably still be chomping at the bit to find the next cop-out.

Look, why don't you just go on over to the Falcons or Saints board and just leave us the hell alone? Because frankly speaking, we're ******* tired of your poo. It's one thing to be critical of a player, it's another thing to wage war on them and that is most certainly what you do. WE GOT IT, YOU HATE DELHOMME. It's not such a difficult concept that it has to be repeated in perpetuity...

[frash.exe]

Look, why don't you just go on over to the Falcons or Saints board and just leave us the hell alone? Because frankly speaking, we're ******* tired of your poo. It's one thing to be critical of a player, it's another thing to wage war on them and that is most certainly what you do. WE GOT IT, YOU HATE DELHOMME. It's not such a difficult concept that it has to be repeated in perpetuity...

tough titty

[mantal]

tough titty

And tough is what it will be from here on out...

[frash.exe]

And tough is what it will be from here on out...

lol, whatever you say hotshot.

[panthers55]

No. .

After this it is all red herring arguments and verbal diarrhea. It is amazing you waste so much time debating irgnorant premises and irrelevant connections. You obviously figure that more is better and as long as you argued every point no matter how irrelevant to the topic at hand, you have obviously won. You ignore the fact that although you have spouted a bunch of barely coherent concepts. it is alll smoke and mirrors.

It has taken a while to figure out your game. Just don't get caught in all the bunny trails you create which lead no where. You continue to be a legend in your own mind and keep arguing with everyone and anything as if we care, really think you have a credible point of view. Admittedly you are more sophisticated troll but a troll never the less. No need to waste valuable time debating ad nauseum with someone who doesn't want to debate but rather argue and try to prove he is smarter than everyone else.

The bottom line is that no matter what you say or how convoluted the argument the general concensus will be you don't have a clue, and little you say will change that. The emperor has no clothes.

[frash.exe]

rofl 55 you've just written 3 paragraphs of opinionated filler that went nowhere.

[mantal]

rofl 55 you've just written 3 paragraphs of opinionated filler that went nowhere.

Made sense to me, but then again, I'm just a hot shot...

[frash.exe]

It has taken a while to figure out your game. Just don't get caught in all the bunny trails you create which lead no where. You continue to be a legend in your own mind and keep arguing with everyone and anything as if we care, really think you have a credible point of view. Admittedly you are more sophisticated troll but a troll never the less. No need to waste valuable time debating ad nauseum with someone who doesn't want to debate but rather argue and try to prove he is smarter than everyone else.

lol you don't care so much you've tried to go stride for stride with me and ended up posting this gem. I mean you said ten pages ago "no need to debate ad nauseum", and look where we are now.

55 I'm just bringing up very reasonable criticism. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make it drink.

[QuasiYoda]

there's a difference between bitching and having standards of which you'd rather see reached.

and it appears to me you have absolutely none, because you've white knighted every single player/coach criticized. Some that I remember: Henning, Trgovac, Morgan, maybe Foster, etc, etc. Oh, except for David Carr, but he was outside of your circle of golden boys to begin with.

Remember what Ben Franklin said: He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.

Jake made no excuses. He took full blame even while all of the following quote is true and he could have easily have shirked much of the blame and pointed at his coaches and/or the defense and/or the receivers, etc. But he is a team leader and he knew the team would be stronger if he took the heat. That is something you will never understand nor place the appropriate VALUE on it. Regardless of your chronological age the fact is you're a punk kid. Here is what Jake took Full Responsibility for . . . .

A game in which the starting running back managed 23 yards after an opening drive that saw him run all over the opponents.

A game in which the NFL's third best rushing attack ran the ball 15 times and passed 34, including on the vast majority of first downs.

A game in which the defense left one of the NFL's best receivers uncovered in the flat for the entire first half. In Arizona's seven possessions during the first half, the Cardinals were forced to punt only once.

A game in which the quarterback shouldered the blame for the whole team and staff, and still accepts it.

Face it, Jake's a game manager who has the ability to tighten it down late in the game. Make him carry the team from the outset and you risk a meltdown. And if he has one, he'll take the heat for the entire team no matter what else happened.

But pair him with a great running attack and give him a close game or lead in the fourth quarter; well all he'll do is just win a lot of games for you.

Because Jake has taken the heat all of his follow players who were in that game feel a greater need and desire to make it up to him because they know where they were at fault in that game and that he does not deserve the full blame. If he had shirked responsibility or only taken partial responsibility for that loss then it is possible they could be defensive and divisive toward overall team chemistry.

How about a few more quotes from Ben Franklin

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.

Ben Franklin

That quote seems to fit you perfectly, Raging BullSchitter, all you do is criticize, comdemn and complain. You bring no value to the discussion. Perhaps you could if you didn't have such an over inflated opinion of yourself.

A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one.

Benjamin Franklin

Your signature below your posts shows you are not interested in discussion merely one upmanship.

You say "Almost made the playoffs!" I say "Division champs?"

You say "Division champs!" I say "NFC Championship berth?"

You say "NFC Championship berth!" I say "Super bowl berth?"

You say "Super bowl berth!" I say "Super bowl championship?"

You say "Super bowl championship!" I say "Repeat?"

Like it or not I strive for us to get better, 100% of the time, while other people can just be content with whatever the Panthers do.

It screams Narcissist with low self esteem to all with an ounce of psychological perception. Narcissist with low self esteem? what a mix lol you in here trying boost your self concept.

Like it or not Raging BullSchitter you are actually all about defeating the Panther's before they even step on the field. The FACT is Jake Delhomme is the Panther's quarterback if you were striving to get the Panther's better you would be all about supporting him because that is all you can do to affect the matter in a positive fashion. You will not get the Panther's to drop him as quarterback (which would be a negative in my opinion anyway) but you could help solidify support for him in the fan base. Instead you sow dissent using the oldest technique to weaken the Panthers before the season starts . . . . "Divide and Conquer".

Must have something to with a New Jersey boy choosing the Panther's as his team . . . some kind of Love Hate thing or perhaps it is all some kind of NFL sabotage exercise you are using to learn political sabotage for use elsewhere. Whatever, you are an enemy of the Panther's it is clear to most of the posters here whether it is clear to you or not . . . .

[frash.exe]

Hmmmmm, I can't outwit this guy, but I know what to do, guys!!!!! I can write up pages worth of blabbering drivel and go off on a nonsensical tangent on him!! Next I shall reveal my uncreativity by adding the word "S.HITTER" at the end of his name while adding a "c" in to disrupt the language filter!! I bet nobody ever thought of that!! Wow, I really showed this guy!!! **self high five**

/preschool level mockery

/QuasiYoda

[frash.exe]

Must have something to with a New Jersey boy choosing the Panther's as his team . . . some kind of Love Hate thing or perhaps it is all some kind of NFL sabotage exercise you are using to learn political sabotage for use elsewhere. Whatever, you are an enemy of the Panther's it is clear to most of the posters here whether it is clear to you or not . . . .

QS how much is your trailer home worth in sheet metal? Is it enough to finance a root canal? Or are you satisfied with your rotten teeth as well?