Best damn Essay on Jake Delhomme this Offseason!

[monstercat]

I'm not the one writing book after book. And I'm not discounting Jake's good games or the facts that he is a good leader. But he will lay an egg every 3 to 4 games or so. And you need top 10 qb play for a minimum of 3 games to win an SB.

In Jake's three healthy seasons, 03, 04, and 05, I never saw him play as badly as he did in the regular season Oakland game and the Arizona play off game last year. That's why I believe there was some sort of physical problem, whether it was the elbow or something else.

[SCP]

Good find dude. Delhomme haters need to read this over and over.

The idea of being no better than your last game is absurd, and shouldn't even be discussed. Jake's not the first quarterback to have a terrible game in the playoffs.

Hall of famer Dan Fouts had two five-interception playoff games during his tenure with the Chargers.

Peyton Manning threw four against New England in 2004. This happened just a year after an awful game, where in a playoff loss to the Jets he finished with a rating of 31.2.

John Elway never threw more than three interceptions in a playoff game, but in his first super bowl he had a lousy 36.9 rating on three interceptions, and two years later his rating was a lowly 19.4 in a loss to the 49ers.

[Fireball77]

BTW, who here knew that Beason was basically playing with one arm for about the last six games, before he posted it on his post-season blog? There is not always obvious evidence that a player is playing hurt, because that's the way they want it. Why, you ask?...because if opponents know somebody is playing with any kind of physical problem, they're gonna try to use it against them. That's NFL 101, and that's why John Fox, Jake Delhomme, and pretty much every other NFL HC and NFL player trys their damndest to be vague about injuries during the season.

QFT

The first thing I thought of when I read Beason's blog about that was OUCH, Foxy will probably not like that he said anything even now (and I agree)...lol

Since Jake never ever complained publicly for those years or used it as an excuse ever we will never know. But to say that just because he didn't complain publicly that means it was no factor is naive. I know this, if he HAD done that he'd be no better than P. Manning or Favre, using it to make an excuse or pimp themselves for their accomplishment in the face of it. It takes far more mental toughness to take criticism for stuff that is beyond your control than it does to whine about it to the press to make yourself look better. I think that's why Fox has never said to the press (that I can recall) that another player on the team has had a bad game except for Jake. He knows Jake can take the heat.

Oh and FTR, Palmer didn't have the surgery.

[panthers55]

QFT

The first thing I thought of when I read Beason's blog about that was OUCH, Foxy will probably not like that he said anything even now (and I agree)...lol

Since Jake never ever complained publicly for those years or used it as an excuse ever we will never know. But to say that just because he didn't complain publicly that means it was no factor is naive. I know this, if he HAD done that he'd be no better than P. Manning or Favre, using it to make an excuse or pimp themselves for their accomplishment in the face of it. It takes far more mental toughness to take criticism for stuff that is beyond your control than it does to whine about it to the press to make yourself look better. I think that's why Fox has never said to the press (that I can recall) that another player on the team has had a bad game except for Jake. He knows Jake can take the heat.

Oh and FTR, Palmer didn't have the surgery.

I just reread an article which agreed with you that he didn't have the surgery. I know I read somewhere else he did. I guess it pays to research your site since there is lots of misinformation out there. Apparently Jake continues to be the only football guy out there who had the surgery and succesfully came back.

[panthers55]

So your gross exaggeration doesn't deserve a little crash back to reality?

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/research/usedarticles/baseballvsfootball.htm

Maybe if you thought about it a little closer you'd be puzzled as to why if elbow stress is equal to or greater in QBs than Pitchers why exactly is Tommy John Surgery so prevalent in baseball/softball than football?

If he wasn't 100% he shouldn't have been on the field in the first place, however that would require John Fox to be prepared at the QB position and when has he ever really done that?

The point is it's kind of a bastardization of logic to write off his season solely based on an unproven intuition that he wasn't 100%. He played, he didn't play well enough to put us over the top, and you people just can't make enough excuses for the guy. The bottom line is he's on the field, whether or not he's recovered fully it's his responsibility to play well and if he doesn't play well, there's better of a chance the Panthers fail, and he was a major reason our season was cut short against AZ. Even if he's not 100%, it's still his responsibility to play well because he's entrenched as a starter. Don't like the way I think, or if it frustrates you, too bad. Where I come from more accountability and responsibility is spread in whatever you do.

I'm not hating on Jake but after this season I can finally understand why so many rival fans root for him to fail is because when we win you act like he did it all by himself, however when we lose it's everybody else's fault and Jake can't shoulder any of the blame.

So so far in this thread I've heard people talk about he wasn't 100% this last year like it was common knowledge he was bothered and that it was the WRs fault for interceptions and we haven't even reached 100 replies yet.

maybe you guys should stay a step ahead and write up your excuses for 2009 in case he fails next year.

What you do is spend tons of time arguing red herring issues that are totally irrlevant. Whether or not baseball players put more or less or different torque on their arms is irrelevant. Whether he should have recovered or didn't or did is irrelevant as well.

A conversation between a guy like Pat Kirwin talking to his trainer said that his arm tightened up during the bye week between the regualr season and playoffs. Unless you want to expouse a conspiracy theory which suggsts that making excuses for Delhomme was more important that his professionalism to report the facts accurately. Except that he could have said nothing and everything would have been fine. This revelation was made months after the playoffs in a conversation off the record not the day after the loss when the team and Jake made no excuses.

The evidence is clear, the first time we played Arizona and he has a passer rating of 122. We have a bye and he has a rating of 12 against a sorry team, then the next game it is 86, followed by a 97 and then a 104.

His last preseason game he has a 129 against NO and after another bye it plummets again to a 39 against a team who earlier in the year he had a 122 against. With the same secondary he torched earlier in the year.

Any fool can see that there is a pattern after a layoff with much lower passer ratings. Then it gets confirmed by a trainer who confidentially admits the issue not in an article or official announcement but a private conversation.

And haters like you go on for pages with red herring arguments when you have absolutely no basis or fact for your allegations that he wasn't hurt. You aren't in the know, aren't a trainer, doctor or have any credentials to refute anything other than a self proclaimed title as a grand arguer.

And you argue that Fox and Jake and folks here are making excuses when the truth is we are just reading and listening to what is being said and what appears obvious to anyone but a hater. You on the other hand have the notion that you are the enlightened one although you have absolutely no basis for your argument. None!

All the baseball arguments are irrelevant. The biggest one being that this whole controversy and game occurred 6 months ago. Why people like you want to hang on to it instead of moving on is beyond me. Lets see what happens in 2009 and then make judgements. I don't need to make excuses. So far this season Jake and the Panthers are undefeated, Jake hasn't thrown a pick yet, and he has fat new 42 million contract.

What you have is sour memories and a hater attitude.

[KillerKat]

QFT

The first thing I thought of when I read Beason's blog about that was OUCH, Foxy will probably not like that he said anything even now (and I agree)...lol

Since Jake never ever complained publicly for those years or used it as an excuse ever we will never know. But to say that just because he didn't complain publicly that means it was no factor is naive. I know this, if he HAD done that he'd be no better than P. Manning or Favre, using it to make an excuse or pimp themselves for their accomplishment in the face of it. It takes far more mental toughness to take criticism for stuff that is beyond your control than it does to whine about it to the press to make yourself look better. I think that's why Fox has never said to the press (that I can recall) that another player on the team has had a bad game except for Jake. He knows Jake can take the heat.

Oh and FTR, Palmer didn't have the surgery.

But to use the surgery as an excuse for him when you yourself as well don't know if it was bothering him or not isn't naive?

[monstercat]

But to use the surgery as an excuse for him when you yourself as well don't know if it was bothering him or not isn't naive?

First of all, none of us are saying that we know for sure that Delhomme had some problems, even though it's a pretty good bet that he did if the trainer said he did, and there is some evidence that it's possible even without that.

What's ridicilous though, is that some of you won't even allow for the possibility that he could have had physical problems.

And for the record, I've said the same thing about Kurt Warner. He didn't just forget how to play a couple of years ago and then suddenly remember again this past season. There is no doubt in my mind that his thumb, and probably a couple of other physical ailments were bothering him for a time, even though he wouldn't admit it.

[panthers55]

But to use the surgery as an excuse for him when you yourself as well don't know if it was bothering him or not isn't naive?

I don't think the surgery was the problem but the recovery. If Fox made a mistake in resting him after the bye it wasn't as if he had any precedent to look at. For whatever reason Jake played poorly after the bye and you put in whatever you want as the reason. The bottom line is I am choosing to believe that his recovery impacted his consistency, strength, and accuracy. This year it should be back to 100% and will we see if the management made a good decision in sticking with him or whether you haters are right. Seems anyone who is a Panther's fan would want him to have a career year that instead of hoping he falls flat so they can be right.

[mantal]

I don't think the surgery was the problem but the recovery. If Fox made a mistake in resting him after the bye it wasn't as if he had any precedent to look at. For whatever reason Jake played poorly after the bye and you put in whatever you want as the reason. The bottom line is I am choosing to believe that his recovery impacted his consistency, strength, and accuracy. This year it should be back to 100% and will we see if the management made a good decision in sticking with him or whether you haters are right. Seems anyone who is a Panther's fan would want him to have a career year that instead of hoping he falls flat so they can be right.

Seems like a reasonable point to take, especially since the team offered him a long term, 40 million + extension to stay. I'll just take a wait and see on this one, but I am confident in the outcome...

[pepaw]

In Jake's three healthy seasons, 03, 04, and 05, I never saw him play as badly as he did in the regular season Oakland game and the Arizona play off game last year. That's why I believe there was some sort of physical problem, whether it was the elbow or something else.

In 05 he blew up against New Orleans, New England, Detroit, Chicago, the Jets and then Seattle in the playoffs, even though we had nothing at running back that game and our O line played bad. With a rating of 53 with 13 picks, and 5 Tds. That is 6 games in a season where he plays bad with is a little above the 3 or 4 that I stated. But that sounds like an average number of bad games per season for him.

Jake is streaky. He will always be streaky. His arm has nothing to do with him making horrible decisions some games. It is your denial fueled by your love of our football team.

And I do not want him to fail. I wanna F@cking win every game.

[KillerKat]

First of all, none of us are saying that we know for sure that Delhomme had some problems, even though it's a pretty good bet that he did if the trainer said he did, and there is some evidence that it's possible even without that.

What's ridicilous though, is that some of you won't even allow for the possibility that he could have had physical problems.

And for the record, I've said the same thing about Kurt Warner. He didn't just forget how to play a couple of years ago and then suddenly remember again this past season. There is no doubt in my mind that his thumb, and probably a couple of other physical ailments were bothering him for a time, even though he wouldn't admit it.

So saying he wasn't hurting is naive but saying he was even though no one knows for sure if he was or not isn't naive? Ok i get it...

My point is ACCOUNTABILITY. He's out there on the field, it's his own responsibility how he performs. If after the bye his arm was sore or tight, why wasn't he working on his arm during the bye before the playoffs? Why wasn't he out with Smitty throwing balls and keeping his arm loose? And if it was tight before the game, why didn't he tell Fox? The amount of pass plays tells me they were confident in him and didn't believe anything was wrong with him.

[mantal]

In 05 he blew up against New Orleans, New England, Detroit, Chicago, the Jets and then Seattle in the playoffs, even though we had nothing at running back that game and our O line played bad. With a rating of 53 with 13 picks, and 5 Tds. That is 6 games in a season where he plays bad with is a little above the 3 or 4 that I stated. But that sounds like an average number of bad games per season for him.

Jake is streaky. He will always be streaky. His arm has nothing to do with him making horrible decisions some games. It is your denial fueled by your love of our football team.

And I do not want him to fail. I wanna F@cking win every game.

Nobody has ever said IIRC on this board that he was anywhere above average. Now you see it, you get what you expect. In other words, all the posters predict exactly what you just reported, so what's the beef?

[frash.exe]

Bleys thanks for pounding on the "Can'ts", "Haters" and "Losers" I was too busy yesterday. Sorry system won't allow me to give you more Rep. Props to the other who defend our coach and quarterback. 12 -4 last year they deserve the support

Could somebody give Bleys a Rep for me? Fighting Disinformation and Fuzzy/Faulty Logic is hard work you know.

How is trying to advance an idea which has never once been verified not disinforming?

[BlindSite]

Qb play is very complicated. Due to our system there's a lot of vertical passing which means passes mid and downfield which makes the windows smaller and with it, the margins of error. That leads to more interceptions, but a lot of highlight reel plays.

Delhomme is streaky, but the system Carolina runs isn't conducive to a QB having 70% completion rating and 30 TDs for 10 INTs, it just doesn't happen.