Best damn Essay on Jake Delhomme this Offseason!

[pepaw]

His arm after surgery had nothing to do with him getting tunnel vision, throwing off his back foot or making horrible decisions in general.

And someone disagreeing with a pro jake argument is not bitching and complaining. It's another point of view.

[monstercat]

OK, you guys are right. There isn't even a remote possibility that Jake could have had the slightest bit of stiffness or swelling in his elbow. Continue complaining and berating everybody that doesn't share you opinion, since that makes you a better fan somehow.

One thing is for sure though...Jake is the starting QB of the Panthers. You can either pull for him or not, but you can't change it. Therefore, I win.

BTW, where was I when Henning was declared a golden boy? Anyway, in my defense, he has been pretty successful with the Dolphins, so I actually feel vindicated for defending him. Of course, I also quickly let it go and moved on when he got fired, because I don't stay in the past, which ironically enough, is why I can let that play off game go and look forward to the future instead of letting it eat me alive.

[frash.exe]

This is true.. People were calling for Fox's head mostly due to Foster, Colbert, Carter, and Morgan for staying in longer than should have.. But now Raging Bull is saying everyone was making excuses? This is ridiculous... How can we debate anything with such inaccuracies being thrown around.. No wonder we keep saying the same thing but are getting no where...

Foster-KT had pretty much put the entire blame on the offensive line for his lack of success and inconsistency.

Colbert-After 2005 and how his playing injured reached the press everybody was ready to talk about how he would return to 2004 form and how 05 was a fluke. Then after 2006 people were still talking about how Keyshawn being on the team held him down the depth chart so he couldn't do anything.

Morgan-People were talking about how Morgan was going to come back strong time after time he injured himself, harboring futile hope in the hyperbaric michael jackson chamber and that special helmet he started wearing that Peyton Manning wears and it never happened.

You can't look it up because of the site crash, but if you were here that long, you'll remember. For every player come under justified criticism, there has been some guy to come to bat for said player/coach/whoever before it's all said and done, he's trying to use 1-15 to eradicate any accountability.

what case are you talking about? what relation does your response have at all with my point? It's just as favorable that he sit out that week than to throw to WRs (if thats what you are talking about).... lol, wow man, really? that came out of no where.... I didn't make a case that you would deem favorable to me at all, I just proved your point to be all about hindsight and making judgments on Fox based on that... Which is ludicrous... No one knows what each situation will bring, and to act like you do is really arrogant. You make the best choice and move forward. There is no right or wrong in that instance, you follow your gut and carry on...

Ok, what if he makes that decision to let him practice and Jake doesn't turn the ball over and we win?

What if i can make up all these hypotheticals to try and further my point?

this game is fun. I can see why you played it.

Hindsight is 20/20 is such a cliched argument that's been used for pretty much anything under the sun these days. IIRC, didn't he "rest" Jake's arm during the bye before Oakland as well?

And CRA is right here... To assume Delhomme didn't have any issues is reaching for excuses on why Delhomme sucks. You can't honestly sit there and say a guy is 100% after having a surgery no one has ever had and then say that if he wasn't 100% he shouldn't have been playing, because as we all know, rarely do players go into the regular season 100% anyhow.. After TC, everyone is banged up.

nah, a lot of people have had the surgery, that's why it's called Tommy John Surgery and not Jake Delhomme Surgery. I can tell you there's a quoted piece about Delhomme talking to Palmer telling him "the rehab was easy". I can dig up a 1000 stories of how people and Jake had been saying his arm was better than it had been in years. And there'd been no spoken word that his arm was "truly" bothering him. But go use your intuitions to combat the evidence because that's all you've got.

And what kind of BS is this bringing up that players in general are banged up after TC? What does that have to do with QB? They wear red shirts during practice, they don't get hit like the other players do.

Do what you will with this because I'm sick of this discussion.

[frash.exe]

One thing is for sure though...Jake is the starting QB of the Panthers. You can either pull for him or not, but you can't change it. Therefore, I win.

i guess ignorance is bliss

[monstercat]

i guess ignorance is bliss

LOL, Then why are you so bitter?

[mantal]

Man, I can't believe this argument still has legs...

[bleys]

Foster-KT had pretty much put the entire blame on the offensive line for his lack of success and inconsistency.

Colbert-After 2005 and how his playing injured reached the press everybody was ready to talk about how he would return to 2004 form and how 05 was a fluke. Then after 2006 people were still talking about how Keyshawn being on the team held him down the depth chart so he couldn't do anything.

Morgan-People were talking about how Morgan was going to come back strong time after time he injured himself, harboring futile hope in the hyperbaric michael jackson chamber and that special helmet he started wearing that Peyton Manning wears and it never happened.

You can't look it up because of the site crash, but if you were here that long, you'll remember. For every player come under justified criticism, there has been some guy to come to bat for said player/coach/whoever before it's all said and done, he's trying to use 1-15 to eradicate any accountability.

With Colbert, using 1 year as evidence that a player cannot come back and should be thrown to the wolves is half-assed at best. Use that if you want, but as Pep has shown you can't discount a player after having one bad year. So when Colbert had a down year in '05, of course you will hear people say to give him another chance. You didn't hear poo in '07 about excuses, so this is completely fabricated by you to try to make a half-assed point.

Fact is, Foster did run behind a bad line. You can't discount that one bit. Nice way to discredit yourself already. On top of this, KT, is one person. Way to group "everyone" in with him. Way to annihilate everything you believe on that issue as well. As I said, I'm curious how you all keep coming up with "you all think Jake is the white knight coming to save us".. Well, you have proven, as others have, that this is fabricated as well.

Morgan... This is your biggest stronghold on your theory you have provided discussion about. Morgan dealt with concussions early on. Concussions, little is know about them. He had a tremendous year in '03 and that propelled talk of him coming back into form, which after 3 years pushed us into '06.. But during that time, no one had any idea if Morgan COULDN"T come back because so little is known. Hindsight = 20/20... In '07, everyone and their mother (who knew nothing of football) agreed he needed to be gone. In '07, the Panthers brought on a new type of contract and we kept him around for as long as he was able to play. By '06, people were calling for Morgan to be done. Your point, dismissed.

Thanks for the chatter.. Shall I continue?

Ok, what if he makes that decision to let him practice and Jake doesn't turn the ball over and we win?

What if i can make up all these hypotheticals to try and further my point?

this game is fun. I can see why you played it.

Hindsight is 20/20 is such a cliched argument that's been used for pretty much anything under the sun these days. IIRC, didn't he "rest" Jake's arm during the bye before Oakland as well?

Are you really fuggin serious man? You are talkin down on yourself at this point because I was not the one playing "hypotheticals"... You were the one to point out, "Fox shouldn't have had Jake sit around doing nothing, that he should have been throwing to his WRs and that would have kept his arm warmed up".. You, my friend, were the one who began in this journey. I merely responded by saying, YOU (nor ANYONE) has any idea what would have been appropriate for Jake. Because.......

IF, keyword, IF, he threw balls to the WRs, and threw his arm out, then you would have been here today using HINDSIGHT to tell us all how Fox was an idiot for having him throw the football to keep warm. This is where you are completely wrong. God only knows what each path would have lead to and neither one of us can arrogantly pretend we know. But, you did. I cannot believe for one second you just pulled this out of your ass. Seriously? Calling me out for playing this game? You are the one using hypotheticals as if it leads to any kind of evidence to your "truth"... And then saying I have no proof to back up my points.. I think I'm doing a damn fine job of helping you along. You on the other hand? Are lacking....

nah, a lot of people have had the surgery, that's why it's called Tommy John Surgery and not Jake Delhomme Surgery. I can tell you there's a quoted piece about Delhomme talking to Palmer telling him "the rehab was easy". I can dig up a 1000 stories of how people and Jake had been saying his arm was better than it had been in years. And there'd been no spoken word that his arm was "truly" bothering him. But go use your intuitions to combat the evidence because that's all you've got.

You're right, a bunch of baseball players. I'm not even going into this.. I think I've said enough to show you are way off base on most of your argument. As most others have as well.... (although not all, some people took me out into left field and bounced, leaving me confused...)

And what kind of BS is this bringing up that players in general are banged up after TC? What does that have to do with QB? They wear red shirts during practice, they don't get hit like the other players do.

Do what you will with this because I'm sick of this discussion.

No wonder you're tired of it, talking in circles gets tough after a while... But this isn't tough to grasp. Players are banged up all the time and play through injury. My point is that just because someone is banged up doesn't mean they are going to sit around talking to you about it.

You said, if Delhomme is injured then Fox should have replaced him, but he didn't because he can't get backup QBs to fill in.

1st off, rarely do many teams have great backup QBs, your crazy... (and for Fox sucking at this, he has a better group of backups than most teams... Your point again please?) Also to note, the league has enough trouble finding decent starters.. I'm really unsure how you intend to make a valid point out of that...

2nd, players don't just come out cause they aren't feeling great and are hurt. Delhomme played with a hurt elbow since reports back in '06. You asked what does this have to do with anything? That QBs are redshirted in TC.. It has everything to do with the fact that QBs play hurt too... And to call Fox an idiot for leaving him in is asinine.. The TC was just an example of FOOTBALL PLAYERS playing the game less than 100% and the coaches not taking them out...

You trying to discredit me by acting like you don't know what I'm talking about is hilarious. I'm only responding to what you have started out by saying. Surely, this isn't too much to follow.

------------

Sorry man, you just went out in left field and I'm trying to help you along.. It might be better if you don't continue the chat for 2 reasons, you're not making sense and it's a worthless discussion anyhow.

[frash.exe]

LOL, Then why are you so bitter?

lol you have no accountability

why don't you go and reply to another fluff piece in another thread in overbearing approval to prove how extraneous you are?

[pepaw]

OK, you guys are right. There isn't even a remote possibility that Jake could have had the slightest bit of stiffness or swelling in his elbow. Continue complaining and berating everybody that doesn't share you opinion, since that makes you a better fan somehow.

One thing is for sure though...Jake is the starting QB of the Panthers. You can either pull for him or not, but you can't change it. Therefore, I win.

I will pull for him being the QB for the panthers but will be emotionally ready for whats to come. Dude were typing sh1t on an internet forum that I win stuff sounds just like my 8 yr old cousin, please calm down.

[SteveSmithTD89]

Good find man! I completely agree with every word of that article. The haters won't accept that though until Jake has a ring, then they MIGHT accept him...

[monstercat]

I will pull for him being the QB for the panthers but will be emotionally ready for whats to come. Dude were typing sh1t on an internet forum that I win stuff sounds just like my 8 yr old cousin, please calm down.

Obviously, you and raging bull are taking this way more seriously than I am. I added the "therefore I win" part just to get his goat, but apparently I got two for one. Pretty damned good for an 8yr old, if you ask me.

For the record, I put most of the blame for that Arizona game on Delhomme and made no excuses for him at the time, so for anybody to claim that I think he is infallable or that I'm just interested in making excuses for the guy, is pretty damn lame.

The difference between me and Raging Bull & you, is that I don't discount all the good games ( and Dehlomme actually did have some last year, including that Giants game ) because of a couple of bad ones. Everybody has bad days, whether it's because of a lingering injury, or for many other reasons.

BTW, who here knew that Beason was basically playing with one arm for about the last six games, before he posted it on his post-season blog? There is not always obvious evidence that a player is playing hurt, because that's the way they want it. Why, you ask?...because if opponents know somebody is playing with any kind of physical problem, they're gonna try to use it against them. That's NFL 101, and that's why John Fox, Jake Delhomme, and pretty much every other NFL HC and NFL player trys their damndest to be vague about injuries during the season.

[QuasiYoda]

Bleys thanks for pounding on the "Can'ts", "Haters" and "Losers" I was too busy yesterday. Sorry system won't allow me to give you more Rep. Props to the other who defend our coach and quarterback. 12 -4 last year they deserve the support

Could somebody give Bleys a Rep for me? Fighting Disinformation and Fuzzy/Faulty Logic is hard work you know.

[pepaw]

Obviously, you and raging bull are taking this way more seriously than I am. I added the "therefore I win" part just to get his goat, but apparently I got two for one. Pretty damned good for an 8yr old, if you ask me.

For the record, I put most of the blame for that Arizona game on Delhomme and made no excuses for him at the time, so for anybody to claim that I think he is infallable or that I'm just interested in making excuses for the guy, is pretty damn lame.

The difference between me and Raging Bull & you, is that I don't discount all the good games ( and Dehlomme actually did have some last year, including that Giants game ) because of a couple of bad ones. Everybody has bad days, whether it's because of a lingering injury, or for many other reasons.

BTW, who here knew that Beason was basically playing with one arm for about the last six games, before he posted it on his post-season blog? There is not always obvious evidence that a player is playing hurt, because that's the way they want it. Why, you ask?...because if opponents know somebody is playing with any kind of physical problem, they're gonna try to use it against them. That's NFL 101, and that's why John Fox, Jake Delhomme, and pretty much every other NFL HC and NFL player trys their damndest to be vague about injuries during the season.

I'm not the one writing book after book. And I'm not discounting Jake's good games or the facts that he is a good leader. But he will lay an egg every 3 to 4 games or so. And you need top 10 qb play for a minimum of 3 games to win an SB.

[DaveThePanther2008]

The haters are gonna hate. If Jake gets pulled for Moore, then the haters will be screaming to put Jake back in. It is what they do.

I have agreed with the writer all along. Jake is money for the most part when we need him. If our team was focused around the pass I might agree with a few of the haters. But we focus on the run and Jake is good fit for a running team. But what i do like is Jake is extremely competitive and has a fire about him I enjoy watching.

Nice Article and I think it one of the best views written so far of the entire situation.

Go Panthers