Best damn Essay on Jake Delhomme this Offseason!

[rayzor]

if that was a possibility maybe he should've spent more time throwing with his WRs trying to simulate a game situation to try and keep his arm sharp (besides practice) during prolonged periods of breaks between games.

that's not illegal last I checked.

pat kirwin said the decision to not throw during the week off came from the top.

i agree, he should have thrown to keep his arm loose.

[frash.exe]

pat kirwin said the decision to not throw during the week off came from the top.

i agree, he should have thrown to keep his arm loose.

Which one, the playoff bye? Or both?

Considering what happened the last time he had a week off that was pretty bad judgment on Fox's part. I'm not absolving him of any blame either, he was just as responsible as Jake for the collapse. The team just looked entirely unprepared against Arizona. Outplayed and outcoached.

[monstercat]

Yea, but to you it's not a possibility, it's very real, and i don't remember any documentation where Jake or any other player talked about his arm bothering him to support your assertion, so until you can really prove it all your argument is, is just a shallow excuse with no merit.

I'm actually not trying to prove anything, because I can't. What I am saying, is that there is some actual evidence that the surgery may have affected Jake since both of his worst games were after the only two bye weeks of the season. And it has been mentioned. Somebody here posted that they heard it mentioned on sirius radio that Jake's arm did tighten up during the bye weeks because the team wouldn't let him throw. I can't remember who posted it, or who it was that mentioned it on the radio, or who their source was, but I know for a fact that it's been mentioned.

Jake never said a word all during 06 when he first started having the elbow problems in the first place, and neither did the team, so why should we expect them to say anything now? Anyway, it's pretty obvious to me that the team knows that the Oakland and 2nd Arizona games were the exception, and not the rule, which is even more evidence that there is something to my opinion.

Now, where is your evidence that Jake's injury had nothing to do with it?

[frash.exe]

Now, where is your evidence that Jake's injury had nothing to do with it?

where can you find film of the conditioning staff putting ice packs on his elbow or him grabbing his arm on the sidelines after a drive and opening and closing his hand to get a feel on his arm?

If there were I'm sure the TV crews would've shown that kind of footage as soon as they could.

I'm also sure that every QB's arm tightens up to a certain degree when they've got a certain amount of time off. That's why they have training camp and preseason.

[bleys]

if that was a possibility maybe he should've spent more time throwing with his WRs trying to simulate a game situation to try and keep his arm sharp (besides practice) during prolonged periods of breaks between games.

that's not illegal last I checked.

and if he did that and burned his arm out, then we would be talking about why he didn't take a break.. This is the problem with this whole discussion.. People aren't putting themselves in real life situations. They told him to take a break, that's just as reasonable as you saying throw with WRs... You don't know what would have happened. hindsight is 20/20 and that's the argument I think a lot of people are trying to get across.

Jake wasn't great, and yet You still keep acting like people are giving him every excuse in the world and they aren't. Some people are just looking at the situation for what it was and not for what expectations you have looking back.

It's whatever though... No one is making excuses for the dude, they are just pointing out what was going on at the time and everyone else seems to want to ignore that...

only point there is to make here...

Which one, the playoff bye? Or both?

Considering what happened the last time he had a week off that was pretty bad judgment on Fox's part. I'm not absolving him of any blame either, he was just as responsible as Jake for the collapse. The team just looked entirely unprepared against Arizona. Outplayed and outcoached.

could have been bad judgment, or it could have been great judgment.. who knows? just because you have hindsight now doesn't mean it was a bad move at the time, because instead of where you sit, Fox was in the moment and had to make a call... Jake could have, at the time, not replicated the 1st instance of his arm tightening up. It was at a different period of time. Turns out, it did, but criticizing the decision just shows we are fans and the coach is the coach. We get to criticize and the coach has to make the best decision possible...

Just saying, it's easy to sit on the couch and point the finger... But to ignore the fact that the coach has to sit there and make a decision really ties his hands behind his back no matter the outcome. It also leads to topics that never die.

[mantal]

and if he did that and burned his arm out, then we would be talking about why he didn't take a break.. This is the problem with this whole discussion.. People aren't putting themselves in real life situations. They told him to take a break, that's just as reasonable as you saying throw with WRs... You don't know what would have happened. hindsight is 20/20 and that's the argument I think a lot of people are trying to get across.

Jake wasn't great, and yet You still keep acting like people are giving him every excuse in the world and they aren't. Some people are just looking at the situation for what it was and not for what expectations you have looking back.

It's whatever though... No one is making excuses for the dude, they are just pointing out what was going on at the time and everyone else seems to want to ignore that...

only point there is to make here...

:iamwithstupid:

[frash.exe]

and if he did that and burned his arm out, then we would be talking about why he didn't take a break.. This is the problem with this whole discussion.. People aren't putting themselves in real life situations. They told him to take a break, that's just as reasonable as you saying throw with WRs... You don't know what would have happened. hindsight is 20/20 and that's the argument I think a lot of people are trying to get across.

You don't know that. That's such a favorable scenario for your case.

Jake wasn't great, and yet You still keep acting like people are giving him every excuse in the world and they aren't. Some people are just looking at the situation for what it was and not for what expectations you have looking back.

It's whatever though... No one is making excuses for the dude, they are just pointing out what was going on at the time and everyone else seems to want to ignore that...

No, people are making excuses for him. Always have. And he's not the only one. For years we heard cop-outs for Foster, Fox, Morgan, Colbert, and others. It's part of how Panthers fans cope with players' failures, that they need to believe there is some uncontrollable X factor that couldn't be avoided, or pin it on a scapegoat, the proverbial "village idiot". Well now today's "uncontrollable X factor" is the perception that Delhomme wasn't fully recovered despite no concrete evidence to support it and that he had very good games where he was on the mark, and I'm just not buying the ruse this time.

[monstercat]

where can you find film of the conditioning staff putting ice packs on his elbow or him grabbing his arm on the sidelines after a drive and opening and closing his hand to get a feel on his arm?

If there were I'm sure the TV crews would've shown that kind of footage as soon as they could.

I'm also sure that every QB's arm tightens up to a certain degree when they've got a certain amount of time off. That's why they have training camp and preseason.

I didn't see any of that stuff in 06 either, but we now know that after the games, Jake could barely use his right arm to brush his own teeth back then.

[monstercat]

You don't know that. That's such a favorable scenario for your case.

No, people are making excuses for him. Always have. And he's not the only one. For years we heard cop-outs for Foster, Fox, Morgan, Colbert, and others. It's part of how Panthers fans cope with players' failures, that they need to believe there is some uncontrollable X factor that couldn't be avoided, or pin it on a scapegoat, the proverbial "village idiot". Well now today's "uncontrollable X factor" is the perception that Delhomme wasn't fully recovered despite no concrete evidence to support it and that he had very good games where he was on the mark, and I'm just not buying the ruse this time.

As opposed to bitching and complaining about something that you have absolutely no power to change?

[bleys]

You don't know that. That's such a favorable scenario for your case.

what case are you talking about? what relation does your response have at all with my point? It's just as favorable that he sit out that week than to throw to WRs (if thats what you are talking about).... lol, wow man, really? that came out of no where.... I didn't make a case that you would deem favorable to me at all, I just proved your point to be all about hindsight and making judgments on Fox based on that... Which is ludicrous... No one knows what each situation will bring, and to act like you do is really arrogant. You make the best choice and move forward. There is no right or wrong in that instance, you follow your gut and carry on...

This is what I'm talking about in my other post.. Put yourself in the situation and remember this is football and carry an understanding of how the game plays out when your trying to judge someone. To carry such expectations that Fox be all knowing and carry his little book with all these magic secrets is a little far fetched and that's how most of you sound...

No, people are making excuses for him. Always have. And he's not the only one. For years we heard cop-outs for Foster, Fox, Morgan, Colbert, and others. It's part of how Panthers fans cope with players' failures, that they need to believe there is some uncontrollable X factor that couldn't be avoided, or pin it on a scapegoat, the proverbial "village idiot". Well now today's "uncontrollable X factor" is the perception that Delhomme wasn't fully recovered despite no concrete evidence to support it and that he had very good games where he was on the mark, and I'm just not buying the ruse this time.

And your concrete evidence that this is all just how fans cope exists where?

[CRA]

You don't know that. That's such a favorable scenario for your case.

No, people are making excuses for him. Always have. And he's not the only one. For years we heard cop-outs for Foster, Fox, Morgan, Colbert, and others. It's part of how Panthers fans cope with players' failures, that they need to believe there is some uncontrollable X factor that couldn't be avoided, or pin it on a scapegoat, the proverbial "village idiot". Well now today's "uncontrollable X factor" is the perception that Delhomme wasn't fully recovered despite no concrete evidence to support it and that he had very good games where he was on the mark, and I'm just not buying the ruse this time.

most people after they legitimately got playing time thought Foster should have been benched and Colbert should be allowed to bag groceries. Morgan was a different thing all together......

again, no QB has ever comeback and been successful after Tommy John...so the assumption that his arm was perfect all season and had to negative effects from the offseason surgery is a bit much...imo.

[bleys]

most people after they legitimately got playing time thought Foster should have been benched and Colbert should be allowed to bag groceries. Morgan was a different thing all together......

again, no QB has ever comeback and been successful after Tommy John...so the assumption that his arm was perfect all season and had to negative effects from the offseason surgery is a bit much...imo.

This is true.. People were calling for Fox's head mostly due to Foster, Colbert, Carter, and Morgan for staying in longer than should have.. But now Raging Bull is saying everyone was making excuses? This is ridiculous... How can we debate anything with such inaccuracies being thrown around.. No wonder we keep saying the same thing but are getting no where...

And CRA is right here... To assume Delhomme didn't have any issues is reaching for excuses on why Delhomme sucks. You can't honestly sit there and say a guy is 100% after having a surgery no one has ever had and then say that if he wasn't 100% he shouldn't have been playing, because as we all know, rarely do players go into the regular season 100% anyhow.. After TC, everyone is banged up.

Let's look at the situation and not get lost in our heads by what we think should be happening..

[mantal]

This is true.. People were calling for Fox's head mostly due to Foster, Colbert, Carter, and Morgan for staying in longer than should have.. But now Raging Bull is saying everyone was making excuses? This is ridiculous... How can we debate anything with such inaccuracies being thrown around.. No wonder we keep saying the same thing but are getting no where...

And CRA is right here... To assume Delhomme didn't have any issues is reaching for excuses on why Delhomme sucks. You can't honestly sit there and say a guy is 100% after having a surgery no one has ever had and then say that if he wasn't 100% he shouldn't have been playing, because as we all know, rarely do players go into the regular season 100% anyhow.. After TC, everyone is banged up.

Let's look at the situation and not get lost in our heads by what we think should be happening..

There are a few posters in here that cannot have a positive thing to say about Jake Delhomme, even if he won us the Super Bowl. That's their opinion, I'm fine with that, I don't think he's great. But they will continue to do it in every thread they can, just gotta get used to it.

[frash.exe]

As opposed to bitching and complaining about something that you have absolutely no power to change?

there's a difference between bitching and having standards of which you'd rather see reached.

and it appears to me you have absolutely none, because you've white knighted every single player/coach criticized. Some that I remember: Henning, Trgovac, Morgan, maybe Foster, etc, etc. Oh, except for David Carr, but he was outside of your circle of golden boys to begin with.

Remember what Ben Franklin said:

He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.