Best damn Essay on Jake Delhomme this Offseason!

[CRA]

And that's the problem right there. Jake was not blamed for the NYG loss. His play was just simply being pointed out. Does not mean at all that anything else is being ignored.

and again, it is only Jake who gets threads listing games where people point out what he did wrong. Go find me a Steve Smith, D-Will, OL thread with people point out what they did wrong over the course of the year in losses.....again, it is being implied Jake did lose those games.

Fox has choosen Delhomme to be his QB. Therefore, some of those gambles are going to go both ways.....but Jake is basically doing the exact same thing in the wins and losses.

[frash.exe]

ah i see the D.E.M.B is in full patrol

Delhomme Excuse Making Bureau

[KillerKat]

and again, it is only Jake who gets threads listing games where people point out what he did wrong. Go find me a Steve Smith, D-Will, OL thread with people point out what they did wrong over the course of the year in losses.....again, it is being implied Jake did lose those games.

Ehh..I think SS, D-Will, and OL were the strongest points of our offense last year. That's why you wont find any threads about what they did wrong. People have got to stop assuming that pointing out Jake's play does not equal blaming the whole game on him.

[CRA]

Well the difference is that he had 5 turnovers all together in the Bucs game and his 2nd worst game ever was against the Raiders. But if you've accepted he's an inconsistant QB then I think we have some common ground here.

my point is the throws he made in GB to get the win, in both NO's games to get the wins.....were no better or smarter than the "bad ones" in the losses you mentioned. He tosses it up and let's his WRs make plays. Fans want to put the NO/GB big plays in highlight reels......but they were the exact same gambles he took in other games that didn't pan out. That is what happens when you have a QB that gambles (see Favre)...you simply have to accept that when he tosses two up (like in both signature Smith catches in the two NO games).....they could both be picked. Now fans praise Jake for taking those shots.......but if you praise him for taking those gambles then I don't see how you can bash him when they don't work.

I'd prefer a different style QB and coach personally. But I do think if we keep Fox then Jake and his gambling are an ok fit.

[frash.exe]

My point is....what is the difference between what he did in the 1st Tampa game and Oak game vs. what he did in both NO game and the GB game? He did the same thing imo in all of those....he throws it up for a WR to go make the play. That is the type QB he is and I can accept that.....therefore an Oak game is simply going to happen and is unavoidable w/ that style QB.

EVERY QB throws it up for their WR occaisionally, even Peyton, it's not an exclusive trait of Delhomme.

[monstercat]

Most pitchers long toss (more like 50-60 yards) and throw bullpens in between starts. Also, weight has very little to do with the stress on an arm barring extreme examples. It's the motion used in throwing that causes the stress and is why baseball pitchers have so many more arm problems than quarterbacks. A softball weighs more than a baseball, but because of the motion one softball pitcher can pitch basically every game for a team. I don't see what the defenders have to do with the strain throwing puts on the arm. If your arguing that they can be hurt by means other than throwing well duh, it's football.

The point Raging and I were making was exactly your point. The games are too different to compare the recovery times. We don't really know if Jakes recovery was exceptionally fast or not considering what he has to put his arm through compared to a pitcher.

Which is exactly why it's pure BS for raging bull to just ignore the possibility that the Tommy John surgery could have had a big impact, especially after the two bye weeks. Those numbers he put up mean next to nothing since we have no other starting NFL QB's who have been through it and started the next season.

[KillerKat]

Fox has choosen Delhomme to be his QB. Therefore, some of those gambles are going to go both ways.....but Jake is basically doing the exact same thing in the wins and losses.

Yeah he's been doing the samething. He did the exact samething in our win vs the Raiders that he did in our loss vs the Cards. Regardless if we won or loss, the number of bad games he has, as far as what he's done on the field, has increased. So yes, Jake is a unreliable QB who Fox has chosen to be his QB. Therefore we're most likely going to see inconsistent play from Jake cause of his style of play again barring some significant turn around.

[panthers55]

That's a little exaggerated. first of all 350 lbs is not your average weight for defensive linemen. Secondly, they don't hit the quarterback and smash his arm every play, they don't even get near them in a lot of plays, especially in the NFC South (it's not a pass-rushing division).

Just how many 40-50 yard throws does Jake make in a game? You understand that he doesn't nearly throw it that far every pass attempt do you? You seem to have this Paul Bunyan type theme going on when talking about Delhomme.

You do understand that pitchers go through more elbow compression and elbow extension when throwing than QBs, don't you? Compound that with the fact that they make way more throws than QBs, and play in more games in a longer season.

You understand that the nitpicking issues you make to my reponse don't justify your point of view don't you?

You understand that pitchers don't throw much between starts like quarterback do in practice don't you. You understand that they are too different sports and the torque they put on their elbows is different rather than better or worse, don't you?

I expect you have a point but it is unclear what it is? His injury was real as was the rehab and I have no doubt he was significantly affected by the surgery and it impacted his ability to play.

What does a pitcher in the major leagues have to do with a quarterback in the NFL. You keep seeming to compare their rehabs or that if pitchers recover from surgery that quarterbacks somehow should recover faster or better. Since you have no comparison since no one before did it, what exactly is your point if any?? He is an N of one. Now that Palmer is coming back , that expands it to 2. The rest of your arguments are irrelevant since this is a football forum.

[frash.exe]

Which is exactly why it's pure BS for raging bull to just ignore the possibility that the Tommy John surgery could have had a big impact, especially after the two bye weeks. Those numbers he put up mean next to nothing since we have no other starting NFL QB's who have been through it and started the next season.

Yea, but to you it's not a possibility, it's very real, and i don't remember any documentation where Jake or any other player talked about his arm bothering him to support your assertion, so until you can really prove it all your argument is, is just a shallow excuse with no merit.

[QuasiYoda]

I WAS WATCHING SPORTS NATION YESTERDAY

This is actually interesting and personally I think it is kind of cool. I was watching Sports Nation yesterday and they were talking about the New York Jets. The shows hosts were talking about how the Jets have recently reported that they have about 1,000 season tickets available and how fans would be smart to go ahead and take advantage of this offer. Then one of the reporters said (It was the male, but I can't remember his name) "Why buy season tickets with a rookie quarterback and a new coach." He continued to say "The Jets will probably go 4-12 this year with them facing the Tom Brady's and Jake Delhomme's this year." I was shocked and since I have a DVR I rewinded the segment, and said to myself "Did he just mention Brady and Delhomme in the same sentence?" Sure enough he had and I was ecstatic about it. That is the first reporter on ESPN that I know, who hasn't blasted Jake Delhomme (except for John Clayton when he was praising Delhomme for making a return from his surgery.)

Actually on Monday's NFL today Qadry Ismail picked Jake Delhomme as his Big Play Player of the Year to come. I'm not exactly sure about what the title was but something to that affect. I rewound to make sure also LOL

[bleys]

Yea, but to you it's not a possibility, it's very real, and i don't remember any documentation where Jake or any other player talked about his arm bothering him to support your assertion, so until you can really prove it all your argument is, is just a shallow excuse with no merit.

sorry, but to not assume his elbow tightened up and he conveniently had bad games after a bye is ignoring the fact that it very well wasn't just coincedence... Expecting to hear about it doesn't mean it wasn't an issue. We know more and more from a fans perspective what players have to go through (like the Aaron Rodgers comment that he was sore to the bone 5 weeks after a Panther put one hell of a hit on him)..

To totally ignore that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue.. Look at the results to see, you don't have to have a link just to know his arm tightening up could have been a major issue.

Just saying..

Really, people arguing for Jake and people arguing against Jake are doing the same thing... Trying to argue their point without understanding the other point. Just so your point is heard...

Fact is, Jake isn't the greatest QB ever, and rarely does anyone sit down and call Jake "infallible". And also, Jake has a lot of weaknesses, but that doesn't mean he is the total issue..

The sooner everyone starts accepting both sides, the sooner we can quit talking about the same bullshit like it's a topic that hasn't been discussed for ages...

[CRA]

Yea, but to you it's not a possibility, it's very real, and i don't remember any documentation where Jake or any other player talked about his arm bothering him to support your assertion, so until you can really prove it all your argument is, is just a shallow excuse with no merit.

Jake had been playing w/ elbow pain for years and never talked about. Jake also isn't going to make that excuse. I think it is pretty logical to assume comnig of that surgery there were some negative impacts of it in his first year back.

[frash.exe]

You understand that the nitpicking issues you make to my reponse don't justify your point of view don't you?

So your gross exaggeration doesn't deserve a little crash back to reality?

You understand that pitchers don't throw much between starts like quarterback do in practice don't you. You understand that they are too different sports and the torque they put on their elbows is different rather than better or worse, don't you?

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/research/usedarticles/baseballvsfootball.htm

The study showed that greater rotational velocities of the arm and trunk were observed in the pitching motion. Specifically, pitchers had greater elbow extension, shoulder internal rotation, and pelvis and upper torso angular velocities during arm acceleration. The quarterbacks’ inability to generate higher rotational velocities is due to the greater mass of the football. In compensation for their slower arm rotation, quarterbacks begin rotating their shoulders sooner, and achieve maximum external rotation of the shoulder earlier in their motion. Another mechanical adjustment made for the heavier football is displayed in the greater elbow flexion and shoulder horizontal adduction used by the quarterback during arm cocking and ball release. This phenomenon is known as “leading with the elbow.”

Pitchers also display greater upper torso angular velocities during the arm deceleration phase, along with more trunk and knee flexion. This complete follow-through motion is critical for pitchers to slow down their rapidly moving arms. Even with this contribution from the trunk and lower extremities, pitchers display greater elbow and shoulder compressive forces than quarterbacks.

Maybe if you thought about it a little closer you'd be puzzled as to why if elbow stress is equal to or greater in QBs than Pitchers why exactly is Tommy John Surgery so prevalent in baseball/softball than football?

I expect you have a point but it is unclear what it is? His injury was real as was the rehab and I have no doubt he was significantly affected by the surgery and it impacted his ability to play.

If he wasn't 100% he shouldn't have been on the field in the first place, however that would require John Fox to be prepared at the QB position and when has he ever really done that?

The point is it's kind of a bastardization of logic to write off his season solely based on an unproven intuition that he wasn't 100%. He played, he didn't play well enough to put us over the top, and you people just can't make enough excuses for the guy. The bottom line is he's on the field, whether or not he's recovered fully it's his responsibility to play well and if he doesn't play well, there's better of a chance the Panthers fail, and he was a major reason our season was cut short against AZ. Even if he's not 100%, it's still his responsibility to play well because he's entrenched as a starter. Don't like the way I think, or if it frustrates you, too bad. Where I come from more accountability and responsibility is spread in whatever you do.

I'm not hating on Jake but after this season I can finally understand why so many rival fans root for him to fail is because when we win you act like he did it all by himself, however when we lose it's everybody else's fault and Jake can't shoulder any of the blame.

So so far in this thread I've heard people talk about he wasn't 100% this last year like it was common knowledge he was bothered and that it was the WRs fault for interceptions and we haven't even reached 100 replies yet.

maybe you guys should stay a step ahead and write up your excuses for 2009 in case he fails next year.

[frash.exe]

sorry, but to not assume his elbow tightened up and he conveniently had bad games after a bye is ignoring the fact that it very well wasn't just coincedence... Expecting to hear about it doesn't mean it wasn't an issue. We know more and more from a fans perspective what players have to go through (like the Aaron Rodgers comment that he was sore to the bone 5 weeks after a Panther put one hell of a hit on him)..

if that was a possibility maybe he should've spent more time throwing with his WRs trying to simulate a game situation to try and keep his arm sharp (besides practice) during prolonged periods of breaks between games.

that's not illegal last I checked.