Best damn Essay on Jake Delhomme this Offseason!

[QuasiYoda]

Hmmmmm, I can't outwit this guy, but I know what to do, guys!!!!! I can write up pages worth of blabbering drivel and go off on a nonsensical tangent on him!! Next I shall reveal my uncreativity by adding the word "S.HITTER" at the end of his name while adding a "c" in to disrupt the language filter!! I bet nobody ever thought of that!! Wow, I really showed this guy!!! **self high five**

/preschool level mockery

/QuasiYoda

Straw Man technique again?! Is that the only disinformation technique you haters know how to use?

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. While actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

Yes, your 27 posts of "Rope a Dope" Circular logic have earned you the Title of Raging BullSchitter, Narcissistic Panthers subverter.

[frash.exe]

Straw Man technique again?! Is that the only disinformation technique you haters know how to use?

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. While actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

Yes, your 27 posts of "Rope a Dope" Circular logic have earned you the Title of Raging BullSchitter, Narcissistic Panthers subverter.

You know what's funny? You thinking you have diagnostic capabilities on the internet, based solely on what my viewpoint is of Panthers QB Jake Delhomme. Real Noble.

[QuasiYoda]

QS how much is your trailer home worth in sheet metal? Is it enough to finance a root canal? Or are you satisfied with your rotten teeth as well?

Ah here we go LOL

I went to your Brick City Panther page where you have a picture of two overweight bumpkins and you've a typed some god awful spelling and grammar as their dialogue. Did that make you fell smarter, more superior, or was that your Dad and his brother in the picture? Self Medicating on a discussion site is no way to solve your self esteem issues and the Narcissistic issues clearly will require professional help.

Maybe you should go back to the NY Giant board . . . or did that kick you out for being a Douche.

[KillerKat]

Jake made no excuses. He took full blame even while all of the following quote is true and he could have easily have shirked much of the blame and pointed at his coaches and/or the defense and/or the receivers, etc. But he is a team leader and he knew the team would be stronger if he took the heat. That is something you will never understand nor place the appropriate VALUE on it. Regardless of your chronological age the fact is you're a punk kid. Here is what Jake took Full Responsibility for . . . .

Because Jake has taken the heat all of his follow players who were in that game feel a greater need and desire to make it up to him because they know where they were at fault in that game and that he does not deserve the full blame. If he had shirked responsibility or only taken partial responsibility for that loss then it is possible they could be defensive and divisive toward overall team chemistry.

How about a few more quotes from Ben Franklin

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.

Ben Franklin

That quote seems to fit you perfectly, Raging BullSchitter, all you do is criticize, comdemn and complain. You bring no value to the discussion. Perhaps you could if you didn't have such an over inflated opinion of yourself.

A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one.

Benjamin Franklin

Your signature below your posts shows you are not interested in discussion merely one upmanship.

You say "Almost made the playoffs!" I say "Division champs?"

You say "Division champs!" I say "NFC Championship berth?"

You say "NFC Championship berth!" I say "Super bowl berth?"

You say "Super bowl berth!" I say "Super bowl championship?"

You say "Super bowl championship!" I say "Repeat?"

Like it or not I strive for us to get better, 100% of the time, while other people can just be content with whatever the Panthers do.

It screams Narcissist with low self esteem to all with an ounce of psychological perception. Narcissist with low self esteem? what a mix lol you in here trying boost your self concept.

Like it or not Raging BullSchitter you are actually all about defeating the Panther's before they even step on the field. The FACT is Jake Delhomme is the Panther's quarterback if you were striving to get the Panther's better you would be all about supporting him because that is all you can do to affect the matter in a positive fashion. You will not get the Panther's to drop him as quarterback (which would be a negative in my opinion anyway) but you could help solidify support for him in the fan base. Instead you sow dissent using the oldest technique to weaken the Panthers before the season starts . . . . "Divide and Conquer".

Must have something to with a New Jersey boy choosing the Panther's as his team . . . some kind of Love Hate thing or perhaps it is all some kind of NFL sabotage exercise you are using to learn political sabotage for use elsewhere. Whatever, you are an enemy of the Panther's it is clear to most of the posters here whether it is clear to you or not . . . .

Quit with the elitist bullsh*t.

Jake made no excuses.

But many people here have made more than enough for him.

Whatever, you are an enemy of the Panther's it is clear to most of the posters here whether it is clear to you or not . . . .

haha wtf?

[frash.exe]

Ah here we go LOL

I went to your Brick City Panther page where you have a picture of two overweight bumpkins and you've a typed some god awful spelling and grammar as their dialogue. Did that make you fell smarter, more superior, or was that your Dad and his brother in the picture? Self Medicating on a discussion site is no way to solve your self esteem issues and the Narcissistic issues clearly will require professional help.

ROFL

The "under the radar" thing? Just pointing out how stupid it is.

oh, btw, thanks for visiting my site.

I guess since we're diagnosing personality disorders by the keyboard might as well post this link for you...

[frash.exe]

Quit with the elitist bullsh*t.

But many people here have made more than enough for him.

haha wtf?

shhh, KK, be quiet, pretty soon he'll be prescribing medications in his next post.

[QuasiYoda]

Quit with the elitist bullsh*t.

How ironic of you to say that as elitist bullsh*t is exactly what I am combatting from Raging BullSchitter. Thus the diagnosis of Narcissism

But I see you have already bought into his schtick as you posted back in May on his message board "You own everyone. Fav poster " LOL Why don't you two go make out some where else. Or perhaps you could open your eyes and see your favorite poster is all about subverting Carolina Panthers, our Quarterback and our Fan Base.

[Fireball77]

But to use the surgery as an excuse for him when you yourself as well don't know if it was bothering him or not isn't naive?

What's known is that it affects accuracy in pitchers. It is logical to assume it affects accuracy; however, we don't know for a fact it did or didn't in his case. The only things we have as evidence are the two games after the byes that he didn't throw during and in the games following that how his accuracy was far worse than it was the remainder of the season and how it seemed to get better over the course of the season (other than the AZ game of course). IMO, it's naive to go 100% one way or the other with it. ABSOLUTELY yes it did or ABSOLUTELY no it didn't. We don't know for a fact either way and likely never will because he won't crow about it to the press and in fact goes out of his way to downplay it.

I think I have a different shade of meaning with "excuse" vs. "reason" than some people do. If I say a player didn't make a play because their having an injury related issue affect it, it isn't the same thing in my book as giving them a free pass for taking responsibility (or making an "excuse") for missing on the play. Say the accuracy thing is true and it was affected by his resting on the bye weeks. Doesn't mean he isn't responsible for making bad throws, not at all. He's still responsible for it. Just means there was something affecting his ability to do it (a "reason"). Same as any other player.

[panthers55]

lol you don't care so much you've tried to go stride for stride with me and ended up posting this gem. I mean you said ten pages ago "no need to debate ad nauseum", and look where we are now.

55 I'm just bringing up very reasonable criticism. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make it drink.

I have no issue with your ability to be a critic and present counter arguments or voice different opinions. I actually encourage it since everyone thinking exactly the same would be boring and unimaginative. And who wants to read the same old thing over and over. It would remind me of the Bucs board........... no thanks.

My issue is the first sentence. No so much your self proclaimed superiority and debating skills, whether that is the case or not is not for you to decide but those around you for whom it is designed to influence. For them to decide if it is truthful, impartial, and relevant to the topic without an agenda. Otherwise it continues to be a point of view, but not one with anything other than face validity.

For example you spend a page discussing each interception with your own brand of analysis. Seriously???? As long as you indicate it is your untrained unqualified opinioned view on what you think you watched, seeing it live or on replay on television which is a far cry from watching game tape. Add to the fact that you have no idea what was supposed to happen, where the breakdown were on each plays, etc. What you saw was what we all saw which was shocking. After New Orleans and what he did to Arizona the first time. It was clear that Jake wasn't himself. And I would like to think that is was Arizona making great plays but instead it was Jake throwing poor passes. Sure you can argue that Fox should have taken him out but who knew if his arm, if sore, would work it's way back, given the difference between successful passes and interceptions is inches not always feet or yards.That premise makes more sense than believing that his arm was fine, he played so poorly and he was allowed to continue. Unless of course you then ascribe to the Fox is too loyal argument.

And all that is essentially irrelevant since it still doesn't indicate if his throws were influneced by stiffness, soreness, temporary rust, or whatever caused him good play to suddenly abandon him. Even if you think he choked and threw poor passes despite having a healthy unaffected arm, it is only your opinion which is refuted by a trainer involved with the case. Still you make your arguments and present it and deflect the conversation down a threaded tangent which is related but not to the ultimate question but a side issue which still is presented in a biased opinioned fashion. Your style is obsessive and thorough which means you answered the question going point by point down the list. And then you continue to argue the new mutated argument in an attempt to win some kind of self proclaimed victory.

The true issue is that you present opinions and personal observation as if they were fact and unless someone else can refute them with fact or irrefutable proof, then you claim you are correct. It is clever and makes good use of the adage that a good offense is the best defense. But it is transparent in that for someone to accept your argument they have to argree with your primary premise that Delhomme is poor and old and washed up. And that will appeal to a small yet strident group of critics. Yet not to the majority. And still the proof won't be on debating what did or didn't happen or more specifically what should have happened and why Jake played so poorly. That will only be answered when he either returns to his form of 2007 before he was injured for the last time and whether he can be more consistent from game to game. Since I don't agree with your base premise after seeing what the people on the inside have stated. I don't agree with your premise that Jake won't improve next year. And while I recognize that by taking a negative view you cover your bases on both sides. Not only can you say your were right if he struggles, but if he has a great year you can say how happy you are we are successful as a franchise and that you are a Panther fan not a Delhomme hater. All while waiting for the next stumble so you can ultimately be right.

Since I don't share your opinion, and find little to no validity in your analysis, I don't see a reason for rebuttal. And it won't have any effect on your opinion and that is my reason for being here. Not to spend my time going back and forth with posters who aren't looking for discussion but someone who sees every post as a threat to his manhood or intellect and something to be beaten back with as many tangential points as possible overwhelming others with volley after volley of response in an attempt to wear them down until eventually they figure it isn't worth arguing and give up. Then you proclaim your superiority when it was your persistence not that your intellect or debating skill. Still admirable but surely nothing to celebrate.

So don't be surprised if I don't go back and forth on this ad nauseum. I find this tedious and boring not intersting or challlenging. Reign on emperor.

[bleys]

How is trying to advance an idea which has never once been verified not disinforming?

Hey, buddy... You just threw out the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard, but since you ignored my responses- you are back in this thread still continuing to talk after you already stated you are done with this topic?

Insane... But that's okay...

Can't believe you actually responded with a long post on this very page, without refuting the asinine things you once pointed out in this very thread.

And don't respond back with anything about how we all see things 1 sided, because I believe it was you I just gave rep to for having a great take on a topic a few days ago... If not, my bad, but fairly sure it was you... Even if it wasn't "we", you can't say I don't see things balanced... Point being, don't group "everyone" in with those who actually have valid points that you can't refute.. As KK has stated in this thread, we all aren't here to down a person, or in most people case, make the guy out to be a hero... The point is you can't down a guy due to only looking at his bad qualities because he has some pretty damn good ones as well..

[frash.exe]

I have no issue with your ability to be a critic and present counter arguments or voice different opinions. I actually encourage it since everyone thinking exactly the same would be boring and unimaginative. And who wants to read the same old thing over and over. It would remind me of the Bucs board........... no thanks.

My issue is the first sentence. No so much your self proclaimed superiority and debating skills, whether that is the case or not is not for you to decide but those around you for whom it is designed to influence. For them to decide if it is truthful, impartial, and relevant to the topic without an agenda. Otherwise it continues to be a point of view, but not one with anything other than face validity.

Sounds ironic coming from a guy who proclaims himself, "the ultimate voice of reason". Doesn't that suggest self-promotion itself?

Still nobody here's proved beyond a reasonable doubt that his arm was bothering him yet it is a scenario of which everybody is accepting because they want to believe he cannot play that bad. I feel as long as we haven't heard anything, holding on to this belief is plain homer-bias, and Pat Kirwan talking to a trainer isn't enough to convince me otherwise. He'd played bad before, on different levels, the entire year. His entire career, he's had bad games. He threw four interceptions against the Eagles in 04, so him playing bad is not anything new. Still the fact that it's starting to come more and more often is cause for concern.

Even if you think he choked and threw poor passes despite having a healthy unaffected arm, it is only your opinion which is refuted by a trainer involved with the case.

Just because the trainer said his arm might've tightened up, which people automatically interpreted it to be pain, does not mean he wasn't making poor reads. I'm sure plenty of QBs deal with some degree of elbow or shoulder pain, at some point in the season. It's kind of like making the argument that Matt Ryan playing a longer season than in college made him play worse down the stretch than what I would believe better that now that the teams had the tape on this guy, they were better able to digest his tendencies and what were his money playcalls. But Jake's dealt with more debilitating pain in his throwing arm for years prior to this, so a little "tightness" might just give him a better chance to make the throws than soreness so advanced he can barely brush his teeth with his right arm. Jake's arm was killing him in 2007 early on, but he was paced for his best performance yet.

And while I recognize that by taking a negative view you cover your bases on both sides. Not only can you say your were right if he struggles, but if he has a great year you can say how happy you are we are successful as a franchise and that you are a Panther fan not a Delhomme hater. All while waiting for the next stumble so you can ultimately be right.

You're reading into all this as some sort of subconscious win/win situation. I don't value that line of thinking, I see it the way it is. Jake will have bad games this season, and whether or not there are enough of them to hinder the team to a degree where a playoff berth isn't earned, if he does, are more people going to own up to it and start thinking more towards the darker side of the situation or are people going to talk about the fact that we played the AFC East and the NFC East and the competitive teams in those divisions and the defenses were just too tough for them to ever expect?

You seem to have this fascination with cutting the argument down piece by piece, and being more concerned with trying to recognize mental patterns over the internet to try and diminish the poster and sticking to the same cards you played in your last response instead of answering the questions at hand. In your own "quest" to try and invalidate my argument by guessing my strategy you contradict yourself. You keep talking about "i've figured you out" and "it's not worth to discuss" however you spend time after time fabricating these messages, which could be construed obsessive in it's own right. Why not believe the only thing you can really prove that the both of us are just strong in our opinions, and you're justified because the same guy I'm critiquing is the hand picked-starter for 2009 and I'm justified because the bottom line is even if he's 50%, if he's out on the field his playing adequately is required for the Panthers to win games. Put him on the field and he better do his job right. Otherwise the Panthers are more likely to lose and people will be disappointed.

I've seen QBs play with concussions, I've seen post game accounts of players talking about how they were hurt in a game, and I've seen them condemned as much by some of the same posters that will gladly take "tightened up" and misconstrue it to be something more when the degree of that comment had never been specified. Even more offending is just gladly assuming he was hurt and trying to use that to explain his poor play.

Since I don't share your opinion, and find little to no validity in your analysis, I don't see a reason for rebuttal.

And you conclude with that so what was the point of your whole answer?

Bleys, it is true, maybe I wasn't done with the discussion and I admit I shouldn't have included it in there. I'm outspoken by nature. Just because I criticize him doesn't mean I don't like the guy or want him to fail. If I had ever posted this offseason "I hope he fails" maybe you'd have more of a case against me but the line between hoping a player fails and critiquing his flaws is a blurred one to many on this board who can't recognize what I'm really trying to say is to learn from these mistakes instead of dismissing them. No excuse or explanation takes a loss away, the loss is still there, and while he has some damn good qualities, does he have enough to put the Panthers over the top? Is he good enough to help the Panthers get made or is he bad enough to self limit the team? I hope so, but I think not.

Bleys, if Fox had rested Delhomme during the bye before Oakland, which could've had something to do with his performance, if it backfired on him miserably against the Raiders, why would he try that same strategy the second bye? It's not some kind of hypothetical, it happened once and Fox just decided to do it again. It's not hindsight, keeping Jake from throwing the first time didn't work and he tried it again the second time, and if that was part of the reason it didn't work, he made the same mistake twice, within a span of 2 months.

Whether or not you see through a balanced pair of glasses you yourself were willingly able to accept that he was hurt this last season with no substantial evidence, and just because hundreds of injuries exist that were never reported, does not mean this one did.

As far as the Foster case goes, KT wasn't the only one who defended him, there were plenty of guys willing to go to bat. He played behind as good an Oline as most running backs would want in '03, in relief of Stephen Davis, who pounded the defensive line, yet his numbers were pedestrian. Still if you want to stick to a mediocre Oline as your defense I don't see how a running back with more career fumbles than touchdowns can be considered a good one.

You talked about nobody after 07 making excuses for Colbert, which, I mean, I didn't even mention that point. I mentioned the years before it, so...

Dan Morgan was notorious for his proneness to injury. I'm not sure why his lack of success down the stretch and his injuries mounting even more year after year is a surprise to anybody.

The only kind of mental pattern I'm guilty of here is that every Carolina Panther has a job to do, and to do well. Should they be chosen as a front runner (starter) it is their responsibility to play well enough and learn from their mistakes when they get knocked down. I don't care if they've got blood coming out their ass and brain matter flowing out their nose, if they are on the field, they had better make plays or not be on the field at all. May sound drill sergeant like to you but frankly I don't give a poo. I don't give a poo if people like to go off topic on a personal level and make responses fabricated upon shoal conclusions on my posting psyche and if you start crusading and diagnosing personality disorders via the world wide web I'm gonna call you out on how stupid you sound.

Now do you not agree with sentences 1-3 in that last paragraph?

[KillerKat]

How ironic of you to say that as elitist bullsh*t is exactly what I am combatting from Raging BullSchitter. Thus the diagnosis of Narcissism

But I see you have already bought into his schtick as you posted back in May on his message board "You own everyone. Fav poster " LOL Why don't you two go make out some where else. Or perhaps you could open your eyes and see your favorite poster is all about subverting Carolina Panthers, our Quarterback and our Fan Base.

All Ragining is doing is defending his opinion. It doesnt matter to me about whoever is right or wrong, because like I said before I don't think it matters 'cause all I care about is accountability. You're the only one in the argument that has come on here degrading somone else's opinion. Panthers55 nor RB has done that.

As far as the other thing. Yeah he usually owns many posters here by backing up what he says. Besides, what does that have to do with anything? Just because someone has an opinion thats different from yours doesn't mean theyre "subverting the panthers, our QB, and our fan base". If there's anyone that needs to open their eyes it's you. You bring nothing but bullsh*t to the arguement that has nothing to do with the subject. Get over yourself.

[frash.exe]

How ironic of you to say that as elitist bullsh*t is exactly what I am combatting from Raging BullSchitter. Thus the diagnosis of Narcissism

Hey, scrappy doo, maybe instead of pouring out your borderline sociopathic emotions out on the internet, it might benefit you well to take a 5 minute breather after you read a post you may not agree with.

But I see you have already bought into his schtick as you posted back in May on his message board "You own everyone. Fav poster " LOL Why don't you two go make out some where else.

oh, wow, a gay joke. how unexpected.

Or perhaps you could open your eyes and see your favorite poster is all about subverting Carolina Panthers, our Quarterback and our Fan Base.

not really. pretty soon you'll realize mine, as well as a lot of posters' opinions here aren't as black and white as you'd like to think. You just can't accept something as criticism instead of what you see is me as some kind of a man on a mission to destroy the franchise, which is a character you can easily tear down to the cheers of only fans who are at least as overexuberant as you are.

[CatmanJack]

I like Jake, he's not great, but he's definitely not bad either. He has some bad games every season, but I haven't seen a QB that doesn't, maybe some of the really good QBs don't have as bad of games as often, but they have bad games every season too. Brady had a game where his QB rating was 22.5 against the Bills, he threw 4Ints and 0TDs and this was the 2003 season, the same season his team beat the Panthers in the SB.

Too many fans like to go to extremes when it comes to Jake, he's not a Brady or Peyton, but he's not a Weinke or Carr either. He is what he is, and what he is, is a QB that's more than capable of helping his team win the SB. So rather than argue this same old tiring argument over and over again, lets just support him as a Panther QB that has given his all since he has been a Panther, in his goal to help the Panthers win a SB. You'll feel much better in the end, if/when the Panthers win the SB, that you were supporting him and the other players all along.