Peppers V. Suggs

[Jangler]

On top of Suggs signing his new deal

http://www.thespread.com/sports-betting-blog/7-15-09-ravens-sign-terrell-suggs-to-six-year-63-million-con.html

The Baltimore Ravens ensured that defensive end/linebacker Terrell Suggs will be around for a very long time as the two sides agreed to a six-year, $63 million contract on Wednesday.

I thought it would be interesting to see the difference between the two.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeppJu99.htm

Peppers:

Total games 106

Tackles 279 assist.67

Pass defended 41

Sacks 70.5

Int.4 yrds 164 1 TD

FF 25 FR 6, 70 yrds. 1 TD

4 Pro Bowls 3 straight

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SuggTe99.htm

Suggs:

Total games 96

Tackles 263 assist.104

Pass defended 31

Sacks 53.0

Int.5 yrds 135 2 TDs

FF 15 FR 10 31 yrds.

3 Pro Bowls

Suggs is three years younger and has played one year less. With Suggs signing this new contract, is Peppers worth 40 million more? Of course that deal (100m) won't happen until next year for Pep and he will be a year older.

[scpanther22]

they were also talking about this on NFL live yesterday...both said they would rather have suggs over peppers

said peppers was too inconsistent and talked about clady single handley took peppers out of the game

but IMO i dont think peppers is worth a 100m deal i know he would never get close to that but still those guys have a point peppers can be very inconsistent sometimes..

[Montsta]

pie.

[Kyle82]

Yeah Suggs is a freakin' beast but I'll take Pep anytime! :wink5:

[Jackofalltrades]

Since were comparing apples to grapefruits I'll say muffins. This is a BAD comparison.

[Jangler]

It's what the media has done all offseason. So I wanted to see why.

[cartier600]

A tidbit from the ravensboard

Suggs is not even worth the franchise tag money (which is top 5 DE money i believe). He is not an elite player, he had a terrible season last year playing on the last yr of his contract and this year he got just 8 sacks. Actually 8 sacks is what i expect from Suggs, he dropped to us because he's not that fast anyway, but all the hype from Ravens fans and the celebrating Suggs likes to do himself creates the Ravens an over rated guy who hits the pro bowl now and then. While guys on the Ravens are the true reason why Suggs has the opportunities to make the plays he does, guys like Ngata Gregg and Pryce who do the dirty work and go on without recognition. Suggs would suck like AD and the rest without Ray Lewis and company. Suggs is not elite, there are LARGE number of players with more sacks and the league leader had 20 sacks. Suggs says he wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL yet he doesn't play on the same level as the leagues best. Hes a great player and of great value because of his versatility but not worth the money he demands. Even though Peppers will come with a monster price tag, at least he has good reason to demand it.

codizzle, on Jan 31 2009, 03:14 AM, said:

yea i dont think i need to come back at that do i LOL

u said suggs had a terrible year last year ?? 80 tackles 5 sacks nothing absolutely stunning but not too bad either

ur boy j pepp had 38 tackles and 2.5 sacks in 14 games so comparing the two ... who had the worse year....

just be quiet ur making urself look bad.... no way on earth we could afford peppers open ur eyes... no way on earth he could be a hybrid de/olb like suggs please

I'm not picking a side because I think they are both great players and I want the Ravens to have both of them. They both play different positions, but I do feel that Peppers can be a hybrid DE/OLB. However you need to get your facts straight. By the way you make yourself look bad by mispelling words and putting up inaccurate statistics.

Regular Season Stats

Terrell Suggs 53 Solo Tackles 15 Assists giving him 68 Total Tackles, 8 Sacks, 11 Pass Deflections, 2 Interceptions, 2 Defensive Touchdowns (From the interceptions), and 2 Forced Fumbles.

Julius Peppers 40 Solo Tackles 11 Assists giving him 51 Total Tackles, 14.5 Sacks and 5 Forced Fumbles.

Those Stats are courtesy of NFL.com

Comments

They are both tremendous players in their own respect and rank in the Top 5 for their repective positions in sacks. I think the question here is whether Peppers can play a DE/OLB hybrid position and that is solely a personal opinion because we aren't experts and that can only be determined by giving him a chance. I don't want anyone to try to bring up the Age Factor either because James Harrison is 30 years old and was Defensive Player of the Year this year. Peppers just turned 29 this month.

They are so many people that like peppers off this board

[Jackofalltrades]

Two different players, playing different defensive positions AND alignments for two very different defensive philosphies. This is just a terrible comparison, anyway you slice it. It's like comparing a Run heavy QB with an "air it out" type of QB. Too many contrasts to draw any kind of fair analysis.

[scpanther22]

i dont think its a terrible comparison...you dont need stats to tell you what player is more dominating..and what player you would rather have on your team.

[Jackofalltrades]

You're right, you don't need stats, but some parralells should be there. Suggs is a OLB how probalbly wouldn't do well as a 4-3 DE and you could probably say the exact opposite about Peppers. Suggs was grouped with HOF lock Ray Lewis and Bart Scott in a VERY aggressive, blitz heavy scheme devised by one of the best DC's in the league and Peppers had Trgo. Offenses rarely knew who was coming and from where when playing the Ravens, you can hardy say the same about the Panthers.

You're right, stats don't tell the story....not even the beginning. It's a bad comparison for a number of reasons. Who's the better QB, Jake with his avg stats and a 12-4 record or Brees with his near record breaking yardage and his nonplayoff 8-8 record? Too many factors.

[bleys]

not even concerned with this topic... just had to speak up since JOAT is here!

[Jackofalltrades]

Wife's in the hospital so me and the iPhone are catching up, damn I miss having web access at work!

[Urrymonster]

i dont think its a terrible comparison...you dont need stats to tell you what player is more dominating..and what player you would rather have on your team.

I am intruiged to see who you think is more dominating...your previous posting seems to suggest that it would be Suggs?

Now I know comparing these stats are a waste of time, but here goes anyway.

Peppers

2.63 tackles per game

0.39 PD's per game

0.67 sacks per game

0.04 Ints per game

0.24 FF per game

0.06 FR per game

Suggs

2.74 tackles per game

0.32 PD's per game

0.55 sacks per game

0.05 Ints per game

0.16 FF per game

0.10 FR per game

So what's the low down? Well Suggs gets a marginal amount of extra tackles over Peppers, but that is to be expected as he plays around 50% of his snaps in the OLB position

Peppers produces more sacks per game, which is a surprise considering that the season which everyone has written him off for only produced 2.5 sacks. It's even more surprising considering the schemes both players play in. Suggs get's the advantage of playing in a highly complicated blitz scheme that takes the opposing OL by surprise. The Ravens have also prooduced more sacks than the Panthers in every season bar the 2008 season since both players were drafted. So Suggs 'should' have more opportunities and looking at players like Ware and Merrimen, you kind of expect those numbers. Entirely different schemes again, but that is who he will be compared to.

Shockingly Peppers actually produces a bit more in disrupting pass plays. We all know that is not JUST from getting his hands up, he has done some coverage and done admirably considering his size. He has it over Suggs here.

Finally is the fumbles. Peppers is just a dominant tackler. Suggs, not so much. The better comparison would have been tackles & sacks to fumbles, as it would have shown just how much more productive Peppers is at stripping the ball.

Is he worth $40 million more?

No, no one is worth the contract Suggs got in my mind. The better thing to consider is the comparitive value in the positions. The DE tag is technically worth $8.991 million, the LB tag $8.304 million. Suggs contract is worth 7.6 times the value of his position, Peppers projected contract offer would have been 11.12 times the tag. Not worlds apart. The consider that Suggs now has the highest paid contract for a LB, so he technically got as good as he can get. For Pep though, there are already much bigger contracts across the DL. So comparitively for his position that extra $40 million is the norm.

Therefore if you feel that Pep is not worth the extra cash over Suggs contract, then you should be pretty annoyed if we EVER give that type of contract out. To anyone. His is, afterall, amongst the leagues best as pass rushing. Suggs is not. Suggs is not even amongst the leagues best as a LB, let alone a pass rusher. All those who wrote off Peppers 2007 season might as well do the same for Suggs' 2007 season. 5 sacks is NOT dominating, will we write him off thogh? Nope, much like we shouldn't write Peppers off. It was one darn season, get over it.

For the record the 'lazy' part of Peppers I often see as disciplined play, everyone saw the clips when he was knocked over when he wasnt looking and the play swung back his way. We all also saw him chase down players from the other side all of last season. Swings and roundabouts. Which is his most prevalent character trait? I will go with the most consistent one. The dominanting one. I reckon you may see an entirely different beast if he is just let off the chains and told to hunt the QBs.

[bleys]

Wife's in the hospital so me and the iPhone are catching up, damn I miss having web access at work!

Good to see you back... :thumbsup:

Hope all is well with her, sorry to hear she's in the hospital...