TNF: IND at TEN

[ctrcat]

For accusing others of being jealous you definitely seem to feel pretty passionate yourself with that homework. As suspected, break down the stats all you want with a fine tooth comb, and what you're gonna find is "advantage Newton" more often than not. Then combine the physical attributes and proven winner (national champ, Heisman, rookie of the year) status, and why the fug should knowledgable, passionate Panther fans roll over and play dead when bombarded with Luck(y)'s deity status?

[Mr. Scot]

For accusing others of being jealous you definitely seem to feel pretty passionate yourself with that homework. As suspected, break down the stats all you want with a fine tooth comb, and what you're gonna find is "advantage Newton" more often than not. Then combine the physical attributes and proven winner (national champ, Heisman, rookie of the year) status, and why the fug should knowledgable, passionate Panther fans roll over and play dead when bombarded with Luck(y)'s deity status?

 

Spoken like someone who hasn't done their homework.

 

Here's the fun part though.  The stats don't really mean that much to me. The only reason I posted any here was to show how CPF84 was arguing off emotion when he claimed a factual basis.  I judge quarterbacks by what I see.

 

And what do I see?  I see that Luck is a very good young quarterback with all the potential to be a great one.  The team around him right now pretty well sucks though.  Unless the Colts fix that, he'll be this generation's Archie Manning.

 

Newton?  Definitely has the better team around him at the moment.  Likewise loads of potential.  Still somewhat inconsistent at the moment, but improving.  And I'm good with that.

 

Bottom Line: I'm happy with Newton, and secure enough in it that I don't have to run around whining about it when other young quarterbacks get attention for the good things they do.

 

So why debate it?  Largely because the inferiority complex I see in these threads greatly amuses me :lol:

 

 

I tend to agree but Luck is the most overrated of all the young QBs in the league. It stems from the outrageous comparisons (Montana + Marino) and credit. I mean, the defense isn't elite but a factor as to why Luck orchestrated those comebacks last season was because of his opportunistic defenders. Those Green Bay and Detriot games still amaze me as to how much credit Andrew given for those wins when he had subpar performances for three quarters.

 

You just described John Elway.  Ponder that for a moment.

 

Why was Elway known for late comebacks?  Because the team he quarterbacked for was often losing late in games.  And no, it wasn't all on him.  Sometimes, but not always. Most years in Denver the team around him sucked.  But he still won, and that's why he's remembered so fondly now, and that's ultimately what people see when they look at Luck too,

 

And realistically, as long as we win, do you care whether Newton had a great game or not?

 

Like I said, they're all overrated.  The deeper question for me:  Why let it bother you?

 

The only time hearing about great players from other teams makes me sad is when we don't have one of our own and we're not winning. 

 

Neither of those conditions apply right now.

 

[smash_n_dash]

Tenn is going to screw it up. Luck is going to throw a TD early and one late, then get slurped as the future of of every form of football, all week.

Good call

[smash_n_dash]

I'm with Mr Scot. Look at it from this point of view. If you were to list the 25 best QBs of all time, you'd probably list a bunch of QBs who have won at least one Super Bowl. There might be a few, like Marino, that are on the list as well. If Newton never wins a Super Bowl, he'll likely not make that list, regardless of his career stats. But if he wins one? Doesn't matter if he has a career completion rate below 60%, he might be on some people's list because of his athleticism or leadership or some other reason. I'm excited for our future regardless of what other young QBs do.

[footballisasport]

They all are.

 

The media loves to treat quarterbacks like gods (yes, even Newton sometimes) but no one is truly as great as the hype would make them seem.  That includes Peyton, Rodgers, Brees and Brady.  All of them have their flaws.

 

And honestly, you can find fans of pretty much every team who think their QB is disrespected in the media when compared to others.  It's just fanthink.

 

It's something I've gotten used to over time.

 

 

You are 100%

 

Our media condition us to see these QBs the way THEY want us to see them and not necessarily the way they truly are. There's how these QBs are projected by the media and how they are honestly seen as players behind the scene. I have always believed that the media's endless scrutiny of Cam has more to do with how good he really is, and the endless scrutiny is their way of showing him that he is now on their side of the fence and they control his image.

 

I hate to admit this, but I major in Psychology. I watch football, not just for the entertainment of  it but I do enjoy observing how the Sports Media break down the players into different catagories, not only with their tangibles but the so called "intangibles." I also enjoy watching how they walk that fine line between feeding the already existing stereotypes of these players and acting like they are so above such behavior. An example of that is them automatically questioning Cam's "Intangibles" and leadership abilities are always scrutinized and questioned from out the game. Why? But on the other end of the spectrum Luck is automatically seen as a "leader" and has great "intangibles." Also, I ask why?

 

Another example of how the media walks that fine line is Eli Manning. I am a Giants fan. I love Eli and I know the media has had their moments when they go after the Giants and Eli. But let's be real, how many of you on here will say that if Cam had been playing like Eli this season, he would still be a starting QB? The Manning name is very powerful in the media, and it shows.

 

Now unto Luck. Yes, Luck is being overhyped and the media is doing their best to condition us to see him, not as he really is but as they want us to see him. Luck is no different than Cam, Russel, Colin Dalton, and I will even throw in RG III. BUT, it's how those in the media, ESPN/NFLN in particular and everyone else following along, have made it their business to not only set him apart by ignoring his flaws but rain down endless praises on him when the Colts win, while quitely giving attention to the real game changers who help Luck look good and I mean LOOK good.

 

I watched the game last night. When Luck wasn't playing well for the first two quarters, Mike Mayock, Mr. Analyst himself, and the other Annuoncer, were doing their best not to criticize his game. You can practically hear it in their voices. Their comments: "Well that wasn't a good throw," or he threw that ball to long or short but they, the Receivers, should catch them."  But as soon as the Colts started to take over the lead, all was gotten and Mike and the other Announcer started sounding like teenager girls at a Justin Bieber concert. They couldn't contain their endless worshiping of Luck.

 

My theory for Luck being so overhped by the media has a lot to do with his pedigree, just like the Mannings. Luck as been hyped by ESPN since his college days because of his father. They had him pegged to walk away with the Heisman in 2011 but Cam put a spoiler on that. They then hyped him to really collect the Heisman in 2012 but RG III did him in.

They are trying to desparate mold him into the next Heir Apparent to Peyton Manning. They are always trying to show how much he's like him or better.  And out of all the Awards that RG III won in 2012, the only award he lost to Luck was Manning Award. 

 

The question that seems to keep coming back at me with Luck is, if he was so good as the media keeps hyping him to be, how come he isn't the owner of a Heisman Trophy and the many other honors that were distributed at the end of the College Football season?  And why is he not treating like Cam?  Especially since those in the nedia's logic for still scrutinizing Cam is, "he was drafted at # 1."

 

You cannot over look the reality...On the other end of the Luck endless hype IS your QB, Cam, who is so scrutinized that he could have a pretty darn good game but those in the media would intentionally sit and find something to criticize him over. Even worst is how many on here would simply follow and do the same. One word for that is: CONDITIONED!!!

[carpantherfan84]

Analysis...right :lol:

Comparing Luck to T-bow...Wow. That may be the single dumbest thing posted in this thread.  I realize you guys are desperate to try and argue that Luck somehow isn't any good, but that's a reach even Mr Fantastic couldn't make.

Quick Tip: Luck is going to succeed or not all on his own. Post a hundred threads with 5000 words a day on here if you want, and he'll still keep winning games and making the Jealous Teenage Girls on here sad.

The only thing you're really succeeding at is making yourselves look ridiculous.

You and the rest of the girls should just start an "I hate Andrew Luck" Facebook page so you can vent to your heart's delight :rolleyes:

 If I did, it would only be to counteract your obvious Pole slurping.

 

And since you decided to go the stats route, let's take a look at the ones you brought up...

Completion Percentage: Newton's career percentage is also under 60. It actually went down from his rookie year to his second, but is up this season since we've gone to dink and dunk passing. Among the players who have a better percentage than Newton this season are such world beaters as Nick Foles, Christian Ponder, Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, Tony Romo, Seneca Wallace and T J Yates.

Quarterback Rating: Luck's for the season to date is actually 87. In fact, it's only been below the magical number of 81 in three of his eleven games this year. Newton's been below that mark four times in nine games, and was in fact rated 52.7 in the last game against the 49ers. He went as low as 47.8 a while back (Cardinals) while Luck's low point for the season is 65.3 (Rams). Higher ratings for this season to date belong to, among others, Matt Cassel, Sam Bradford, Josh McCown, Case Keenum, Tony Romo, Jason Campbell and Matt Ryan.

Ints / TDs / YPA: Luck's career ratio of 37 to 24 (1.542) is actually better than Newton's 53 to 37 (1.432). And as far as who's pulling back on the longballs, Luck has 36 passes of 20 yards or more this season while Newton has only 22. Ya wanna throw in rushing yards? Advantage Newton, but only by 32 yards (266 to 231). And in that YPA category, Luck's is exactly 7.0. Newton's? Only 7.8 overall. FYI: RG3 owns a 7.7 here. For this season, Newton is at 7.3, while Nick Foles is at 9.2. And while we're at it, Luck has 347 attempts this season (31.5 per game) where Newton has 271 (30.1 per game) so who's 'cutting down on attempts'?

(Source for all stats: NFL.com)

Real impressed with that 'factual analysis' ya did there :lol:

(glad you haven't allowed emotion or jealousy to affect your thinking) :unsure:

So if you believe these stats bolster your argument that Luck isn't all that good, what do they say about Newton?

Soo, the person who has constantly said that we needn't use Cam in order to analyze Luck, has once again become the main one to bring Cam into the argument.  But you STILL ARE IGNORING THE ARGUMENT.

 

LUCK IS AVERAGE!!! PERIOD.  Noone said he doesn't belong in the league. Just that he has yet to prove special.

 

They all are.

 

The media loves to treat quarterbacks like gods (yes, even Newton sometimes) but no one is truly as great as the hype would make them seem.  That includes Peyton, Rodgers, Brees and Brady.  All of them have their flaws.

 

And honestly, you can find fans of pretty much every team who think their QB is disrespected in the media when compared to others.  It's just fanthink.

 

It's something I've gotten used to over time.

Soooo you dooo agree. All this time I thought that all your inability to admit his flaws were centered around your lack of knowledge of the game, now I see that it is instead because of you're too busy sniffing Luck's Jock to truly to see the truth all the time.

 

All of them have their flaws.

soooo what are Luck's flaws again? because I could have sworn that myself and several others went through great efforts to calmly and accurately lay them out for you. This was met with ridicule, blind allegiance, and insults by you.

[carpantherfan84]

You are 100%

 

Our media condition us to see these QBs the way THEY want us to see them and not necessarily the way they truly are. There's how these QBs are projected by the media and how they are honestly seen as players behind the scene. I have always believed that the media's endless scrutiny of Cam has more to do with how good he really is, and the endless scrutiny is their way of showing him that he is now on their side of the fence and they control his image.

 

I hate to admit this, but I major in Psychology. I watch football, not just for the entertainment of  it but I do enjoy observing how the Sports Media break down the players into different catagories, not only with their tangibles but the so called "intangibles." I also enjoy watching how they walk that fine line between feeding the already existing stereotypes of these players and acting like they are so above such behavior. An example of that is them automatically questioning Cam's "Intangibles" and leadership abilities are always scrutinized and questioned from out the game. Why? But on the other end of the spectrum Luck is automatically seen as a "leader" and has great "intangibles." Also, I ask why?

 

Another example of how the media walks that fine line is Eli Manning. I am a Giants fan. I love Eli and I know the media has had their moments when they go after the Giants and Eli. But let's be real, how many of you on here will say that if Cam had been playing like Eli this season, he would still be a starting QB? The Manning name is very powerful in the media, and it shows.

 

Now unto Luck. Yes, Luck is being overhyped and the media is doing their best to condition us to see him, not as he really is but as they want us to see him. Luck is no different than Cam, Russel, Colin Dalton, and I will even throw in RG III. BUT, it's how those in the media, ESPN/NFLN in particular and everyone else following along, have made it their business to not only set him apart by ignoring his flaws but rain down endless praises on him when the Colts win, while quitely giving attention to the real game changers who help Luck look good and I mean LOOK good.

 

I watched the game last night. When Luck wasn't playing well for the first two quarters, Mike Mayock, Mr. Analyst himself, and the other Annuoncer, were doing their best not to criticize his game. You can practically hear it in their voices. Their comments: "Well that wasn't a good throw," or he threw that ball to long or short but they, the Receivers, should catch them."  But as soon as the Colts started to take over the lead, all was gotten and Mike and the other Announcer started sounding like teenager girls at a Justin Bieber concert. They couldn't contain their endless worshiping of Luck.

 

My theory for Luck being so overhped by the media has a lot to do with his pedigree, just like the Mannings. Luck as been hyped by ESPN since his college days because of his father. They had him pegged to walk away with the Heisman in 2011 but Cam put a spoiler on that. They then hyped him to really collect the Heisman in 2012 but RG III did him in.

They are trying to desparate mold him into the next Heir Apparent to Peyton Manning. They are always trying to show how much he's like him or better.  And out of all the Awards that RG III won in 2012, the only award he lost to Luck was Manning Award. 

 

The question that seems to keep coming back at me with Luck is, if he was so good as the media keeps hyping him to be, how come he isn't the owner of a Heisman Trophy and the many other honors that were distributed at the end of the College Football season?  And why is he not treating like Cam?  Especially since those in the nedia's logic for still scrutinizing Cam is, "he was drafted at # 1."

 

You cannot over look the reality...On the other end of the Luck endless hype IS your QB, Cam, who is so scrutinized that he could have a pretty darn good game but those in the media would intentionally sit and find something to criticize him over. Even worst is how many on here would simply follow and do the same. One word for that is: CONDITIONED!!!

You know what, You are steadily becoming a popular person in the Carpantherfan84 world. I agree 100% with your analysis of the media. I have a huge anti media bias. I believe it is the one true organization where the conspiracy theories are true. They do indeed control the minds of the people.

 

I also think it is awfully interesting how someone could supposedly play so godly yet have so little to show for it.  But I would go much further than to simply point out the inconsistencies with the coverage of Cam/RGIII/Luck. How dare they compare him to the likes of John Elway and Peyton Manning.  Laughable really.

[Mr. Scot]

If I did, it would only be to counteract your obvious Pole slurping.

Soo, the person who has constantly said that we needn't use Cam in order to analyze Luck, has once again become the main one to bring Cam into the argument. But you STILL ARE IGNORING THE ARGUMENT.

LUCK IS AVERAGE!!! PERIOD. Noone said he doesn't belong in the league. Just that he has yet to prove special.

Soooo you dooo agree. All this time I thought that all your inability to admit his flaws were centered around your lack of knowledge of the game, now I see that it is instead because of you're too busy sniffing Luck's Jock to truly to see the truth all the time.

soooo what are Luck's flaws again? because I could have sworn that myself and several others went through great efforts to calmly and accurately lay them out for you. This was met with ridicule, blind allegiance, and insults by you.

Using the standards you set, if Luck is average, then Newton is subpar.

Is that something you're willing to accapt? Is branding Luck such a big deal to you that you'll knock Can in order to do it?

Wow :lol:

[carpantherfan84]

Using the standards you set, if Luck is average, then Newton is subpar.

Is that something you're willing to accapt? Is branding Luck such a big deal to you that you'll knock Can in order to do it?

Wow :lol:

first off, what in the world would lead you to believe that I am not critical of Cam Newton