San Francisco Newpaper: Cam Is Better Than Kaepernick

[Marvin49]

The thing is though that sometimes simple can still be effective. The 49ers are effective just not complicated.  They rely on their player's ability rather than the schemes complexity.  It was similar to what the Panthers did under Fox when they had a very talented team.

 

Yes and no. The O is fairly complex...the difference tho is that most of the complexity happens before the snap and is simpler to execute with more clear cut decisions once the ball is snapped. The Niners will shif presnap more than any team you see this year. Watch.

[fieryprophet]

Most of that is true. They also run into real problems when teams can just man them up and don't need a safety to help. Only a few teams in the NFL can do that tho and unfortunately Seattle is one of them.

 

Most teams can't "hold the run" against them. They are way to multiple in their formations and playcalling to account for everything. While there are very few run plays that could in themselves be called revolutionary, the shear volume of runs from different formations is what makes them somewhat unique.

 

I know one team that can "hold the run" with the best of them. . .they play this Sunday in the Bay Area. . .wearing blue.

 

And one reason they have to utilize so many formations and different forms of running the ball is because they're such a run-heavy team that they really don't have a choice unless they want teams to completely stack them out of the game. They're doing a good job of playing to their strengths but they are still relatively one-dimensional.

[fieryprophet]

Yes and no. The O is fairly complex...the difference tho is that most of the complexity happens before the snap and is simpler to execute with more clear cut decisions once the ball is snapped. The Niners will shif presnap more than any team you see this year. Watch.

 

Those shifts and motions aren't anything beyond the pale, it's a standard tool to determine the coverage. We use it a lot with our receivers to help Cam decipher if the defense is playing man or zone in a particular area, oftentimes moving a receiver around before he circles right back to where he started before the snap. The 49ers like to run motions away from the primary target, hoping to draw the defense's attention away from where the ball is going.

[Marvin49]

I know one team that can "hold the run" with the best of them. . .they play this Sunday in the Bay Area. . .wearing blue.

 

And one reason they have to utilize so many formations and different forms of running the ball is because they're such a run-heavy team that they really don't have a choice unless they want teams to completely stack them out of the game. They're doing a good job of playing to their strengths but they are still relatively one-dimensional.

 

....I suppose that's one way to look at it.

 

I see it differently tho. I think they run like that by design because they've been doing that since Stanford. Toby Gerhart was a star there long before Luck was prominent.

 

Carolina is very good against the run and I would expect the 49ers to come out running and not have a ton of success early. Where they are different from most teams tho is that they'll never give up on the run and those short or no gainers early on will pop open a bit late.

 

Even wen those runs aren't working all that well, they still force you to respect the run and that makes Play Action effective.

 

I'm not expecting a big statistical game from Gore or Hunter. I suspect tho that when its all said and done the 49ers will run for more yards than you think they will.

 

I remember in 2011 when the Niners had one of the best run Ds in NFL history. Teams just flat gave up running the ball after awhile. The teams tho that stuck with it and just kept running? They eventually found some measure of success late in the game.

[Marvin49]

Those shifts and motions aren't anything beyond the pale, it's a standard tool to determine the coverage. We use it a lot with our receivers to help Cam decipher if the defense is playing man or zone in a particular area, oftentimes moving a receiver around before he circles right back to where he started before the snap. The 49ers like to run motions away from the primary target, hoping to draw the defense's attention away from where the ball is going.

 

Correct....everyone runs shifts...but nobody runs as many as the Niners do. I also don't know of any teams that change the play as close to the clock expiring as they do...and that ain't always a good thing. They probably lead the league in timeouts called because they are too busy shifting or changing the play as the clock is expiring.

 

On all of this stuff...I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.  :D

[fieryprophet]

....I suppose that's one way to look at it.

 

I see it differently tho. I think they run like that by design because they've been doing that since Stanford. Toby Gerhart was a star there long before Luck was prominent.

 

Carolina is very good against the run and I would expect the 49ers to come out running and not have a ton of success early. Where they are different from most teams tho is that they'll never give up on the run and those short or no gainers early on will pop open a bit late.

 

Even wen those runs aren't working all that well, they still force you to respect the run and that makes Play Action effective.

 

I'm not expecting a big statistical game from Gore or Hunter. I suspect tho that when its all said and done the 49ers will run for more yards than you think they will.

 

I remember in 2011 when the Niners had one of the best run Ds in NFL history. Teams just flat gave up running the ball after awhile. The teams tho that stuck with it and just kept running? They eventually found some measure of success late in the game.

 

That's the second half of the Panthers gameplan, though. We run the ball very well, and your run defense has been middling despite the fact that you've gotten up on a lot of teams early. We have the league's highest time of possession and our quarterback is the league's best on 3rd down. So we grind out long-scoring drives and keep teams from being able to pound the run against our defense, meaning they don't wear down late.

 

[panthers55]

Most of that is true. They also run into real problems when teams can just man them up and don't need a safety to help. Only a few teams in the NFL can do that tho and unfortunately Seattle is one of them.

 

Most teams can't "hold the run" against them. They are way to multiple in their formations and playcalling to account for everything. While there are very few run plays that could in themselves be called revolutionary, the shear volume of runs from different formations is what makes them somewhat unique.

The 49ers don't have the best run offense in the league based on yards per carry in fact it is tied for 9th at 4.5 yards per carry.  They are first because they have the most carries of the top 10 running teams.

 

2 of our 6 opponents had better yards per carry than the 49ers including Seattle at 4.6 and Minnesota at 4.8.  We kept Seattle to 70 yards and Minnesota to 75.

 

The 49ers have the highest run average not because they do it best but because they are persistent and with big leads could afford to run. If we can manage to get a lead which we have done every week so far.  We will see if the 49ers stay patient or try to win it in the air which plays to our strength.

[Marvin49]

That's the second half of the Panthers gameplan, though. We run the ball very well, and your run defense has been middling despite the fact that you've gotten up on a lot of teams early. We have the league's highest time of possession and our quarterback is the league's best on 3rd down. So we grind out long-scoring drives and keep teams from being able to pound the run against our defense, meaning they don't wear down late.

 

 

hehe.

 

That's funny....that's exactly what the Niners will try to do.  :)

 

As for the run D, keep in mind that the 49ers have been playing at times without 2 of their starting 4 LBs and 2 banged up DEs.

 

To be honest, teams built like the Panthers present a far greater challenge to the 49ers than the pass-happy teams like the Packers, Saints, Pats, and last years Falcons. In fact, in Harbaughs tenure, the 49ers are a collective 7-0 vs Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Ryan.

 

Its teams built like themselves they have trouble with.

 

This will be a tough game for SF. No doubt.

[teeray]

I just went back an re-watched the entire SF/Jags game.

 

There is no evidence of a special only two read offense.

 

There was maybe one max protect two receiver route, there were a couple of play action rollouts that used only one side of the field but still had multiple progressions.  And there was a goal line TD to Davis on play action.

 

Every other passing play had 3 or more receivers (although the vast majority had at least 4) and had multiple progressions.

 

I don't know where the "He only has one or two reads" stuff is coming from

 

I just wanted to add that Jacksonville is terrible.  Just awful.  That is not meant to diminish the 49ers win.  Just a point of fact.  I wish we played them.  I will be shocked if they win a game this year.  Limited talent, and maybe worse coaching. 

[panthers55]

Yes and no. The O is fairly complex...the difference tho is that most of the complexity happens before the snap and is simpler to execute with more clear cut decisions once the ball is snapped. The Niners will shif presnap more than any team you see this year. Watch.

I doubt they come close to Denver.

[MadHatter]

People have been critical of Cam for not going through progressions, but from what I have seen from Kaep this year, he really doesn't seem to through his progressions.

Cam will but sometimes he takes to long to do it. But he has gotten better.

A big key on defense will be putting them in passing situations. That means keeping Gore in check, and staying disciplined against the read option.

Cam has made huge strides this year with his progressions . Guy is developing every game.

[Marvin49]

The 49ers don't have the best run offense in the league based on yards per carry in fact it is tied for 9th at 4.5 yards per carry.  They are first because they have the most carries of the top 10 running teams.

 

2 of our 6 opponents had better yards per carry than the 49ers including Seattle at 4.6 and Minnesota at 4.8.  We kept Seattle to 70 yards and Minnesota to 75.

 

The 49ers have the highest run average not because they do it best but because they are persistent and with big leads could afford to run. If we can manage to get a lead which we have done every week so far.  We will see if the 49ers stay patient or try to win it in the air which plays to our strength.

 

...uh...ok.

 

So even tho teams KNOW the 49ers will run the ball more than any other team in the NFL and will sell out to stop it, they STILL can't do it and still allow 183 yards per game over the last 5.

 

This is nothing more than another statistical anomaly that stems from the huge leads they have enjoyed. You are not entirely incorrect...but the fact that they have had those leads also contributes to their passing statistics. You don't get it both ways.  :)  Also, they BUILT a number of those leads by running the ball,

[Marvin49]

I doubt they come close to Denver.

 

I actually agree. Manning is ridiculous at the line.

[Marvin49]

I just went back an re-watched the entire SF/Jags game.

 

There is no evidence of a special only two read offense.

 

There was maybe one max protect two receiver route, there were a couple of play action rollouts that used only one side of the field but still had multiple progressions.  And there was a goal line TD to Davis on play action.

 

Every other passing play had 3 or more receivers (although the vast majority had at least 4) and had multiple progressions.

 

I don't know where the "He only has one or two reads" stuff is coming from

 

I just wanted to add that Jacksonville is terrible.  Just awful.  That is not meant to diminish the 49ers win.  Just a point of fact.  I wish we played them.  I will be shocked if they win a game this year.  Limited talent, and maybe worse coaching. 

 

I don't think I ever said there were only ever 2 reads at all times. I think I was saying that the read is typically made pre-snap. I would so go look at how often they have 2 or 3 WRs on the field. Not often. The WRs suck. They'll actually throw more to the FB than to the #2 WR. You will also see that the WRs in those formations are very often not actually WRs.

 

As for the Jags....yes, they are. LOL. Horrible. It was embarrassing to give up 10 points.