San Francisco Newpaper: Cam Is Better Than Kaepernick

[Gabeking]

...and you don't know what you are talking about. Thats EXACTLY what he's done.

Its different than what Peyton or Cam are running. Look up Todd Mortenson...he was the first QB Harbaugh had at USD.

The Niners (and Stanford still BTW...and now the Colts with Pep Hamilton as the OC now) go to the line on every down with 2 or 3 plays called in the huddle. You will see Kap say something like "Let it roll", "Green, Green, Green", or "Kill, Kill, Kill". That signals which play is actually going to be run. There was a tweet last week about how Case Keenum was in his first start and didn't have a wristband with plays on it yet Luck in his second season did. The reason is the mutliple plays in the huddle. Hell, at Stanford, Luck had one and an offensive lineman had another for him to reference because they couldn't get it all on one wristband. No joke.

They then run audibles ON TOP OF THAT. It also creates issues with them not getting plays off in time and presents big issues in noisy atmospheres...like Seattle.

Moreover, the Niners very often will run jumbo set with 1 or 2 receivers in the pattern. Why? They are running HEAVY play action. They'l go to the line with an extra lineman, 2 TEs a RB and FB...and throw DEEP to Vernon for a score.

There are times that there is one viable target to pass to because they rest are there to block downfield. They did that several times for first downs to Crabtree. I'm not talking about flanker screens either. I'm talking passes over the middle.

All of this pales in comparision to all the stuff they do in the running game, but thats a whole other subject.

Why is this the best answer

[CRA]

Why is this the best answer

I might have done it. Fixed. Fat fingers plus iPhone.

[SCP]

Bro do you even 49?

[fieryprophet]

Why is this the best answer

 

Because that stupid Mark Solved button is where the Quote button is supposed be.

 

*paging Zod*

[ItsNotGonnaBeAlright]

I would kill to see Cam play behind an OLine worth a damn.

I'm not kidding, if you can make that happen, I'll kill someone for you.

[Smith vs Lucas]

Of course Cam is better than Kaepernick. Panthers knew it, NFL scouts knew it, and the 49ers are about to find out on Sunday!

[panthers55]

...and you don't know what you are talking about. Thats EXACTLY what he's done.

 

Its different than what Peyton or Cam are running. Look up Todd Mortenson...he was the first QB Harbaugh had at USD.

 

The Niners (and Stanford still BTW...and now the Colts with Pep Hamilton as the OC now) go to the line on every down with 2 or 3 plays called in the huddle. You will see Kap say something like "Let it roll", "Green, Green, Green", or "Kill, Kill, Kill". That signals which play is actually going to be run. There was a tweet last week about how Case Keenum was in his first start and didn't have a wristband with plays on it yet Luck in his second season did. The reason is the mutliple plays in the huddle. Hell, at Stanford, Luck had one and an offensive lineman had another for him to reference because they couldn't get it all on one wristband. No joke.

 

They then run audibles ON TOP OF THAT. It also creates issues with them not getting plays off in time and presents big issues in noisy atmospheres...like Seattle.

 

Moreover, the Niners very often will run jumbo set with 1 or 2 receivers in the pattern. Why? They are running HEAVY play action. They'l go to the line with an extra lineman, 2 TEs a RB and FB...and throw DEEP to Vernon for a score.

 

There are times that there is one viable target to pass to because they rest are there to block downfield. They did that several times for first downs to Crabtree. I'm not talking about flanker screens either. I'm talking passes over the middle.

 

All of this pales in comparision to all the stuff they do in the running game, but thats a whole other subject.

If you think that San Francisco runs a unique offense, you are wrong.  Usually teams have multiple plays they can call from each formation.  They also have have multiple formations they can use with each personnel grouping.  Every team has multiple plays and audibles they use based on what defense they see when they go to the line of scrimmage.  They have the option to change the play and keep the formation, or change the formation and change the play.  Then when the defense calls an audible they can further modify the play or call a hot read on a blitz, etc.  

They can also send folks into motion to determine what coverage the defense is in or shift people to overload specific areas of the field.  Then there is the whole notion of post snap reads to determine where you throw the ball or whether you hand it off or keep it and run yourself, etc. 

 

The only teams that don't use this whole gamut are teams that have quarterbacks who can't do all of it due to inexperience or lack of ability.  If Kaepernick can only go to 1 or 2 reads at most, it is simply a function of lack of experience based on limited time in the current system not by design.  As he plays more games and develops he will learn to do more and become a complete quarterback much like Newton has learned to do.  What Harbaugh does well  is maximize his play calling based on what his quarterback does the best. So he designs plays based on what Kaepernick can do now.  As he develops the play calling will emphasize more reads and complexity.  Kaepernick was picked over Alex Smith based on his potential and athleticism and will get better over time.  Cam is in his 3rd year and Kaep is only 16 games into his career.  He can't be expected to be that advanced at this point.

[Marvin49]

None of that is remotely as advanced as you imagine. Cam's been going to the line with two calls since he was a rookie, an he does it without a wristband, so he has to remember them both every snap. He audibles as much as 65% of his plays this year with little of the frantic hand-waving Kap does, and he even helps design the gameplan each week.

And kill calls aren't advanced at all, that's standard fare in the NFL. What's abnormal is the 49ers heavy reliance on those plays just to try to isolate their single reads because Kap's not reading past them.

 

LOL.

 

None of you have any idea what I'm talking about.

 

That's OK. All NFL offenses have an audible system. All NFL offenses have hot reads. All NFL offenses do stuff pre-snap to clue the QB in to what is about to happen. You are all correct in that none of THAT is unique.

 

THAT is not what I'm talking about. I'm clearly not good enough a writer here to accurately depict what I'm talking about. No worries. You guys can believe what you want to believe.

 

Let me attack this from another angle tho. Every single solitary QB that has worked for any length of time with Harbaugh has succeeded. Todd Mortenson was a career backup and flourished in his final year at USD (he was a transfer). Josh Johnson was the highest rated QB in the history of his league. As a senior he threw 40 TDs and 1 INT. Andrew Luck was regarded as the best NFL Draft prospect at QB since Peyton Manning. Alex Smith was largely considered a total bust and improved enough to be worth 2 2nd round picks. Colin Kaepernick came in and made his 10th freakin' NFL start in the Super Bowl.

 

Is this all a coincidence? Is Harbaugh a QB whisperer? Or perhaps...just perhaps...Harbaugh has created a system that actually makes it easier for QBs to succeed. Anyone notice that the first thing the Colts did this offseason was to go out and get Pep Hamilton from Stanford to run the same O Luck ran in college? Go look at how different his TD-INT numbers and Qb rating look. Pep wants that same run based offense that Stanford and the 49ers ran and that's a big reason they went out and got Trent Richardson. These offenses run off play action primarily.

 

As much as I HATE doing this, I'm linking another Cohn article. Try to stear away from any commentary from the moron writer and pay attention to what Mortenson said.

 

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/inside-the-49ers/harbaughs-first-quarterback-says-the-offense-is-the-key/

 

 

You guys could even flip this argument to say that Cam is better BECAUSE Kap has the benefit of playing in this system while Cam plays in a more conventional offense. That's partially why I have never been trying to sit here and make the Kap>Cam argument.

 

Bottom line tho, I know what I know. You guys believe what you believe. Other teams have offenses every bit at revolutionary, but they are simply different. They seek to accomplish a different goal. The Eagles, Broncos and Pats are all doing what Oregon does...high tempo, call plays at the LOS, audible to weaknesses in defensive alignment, force a D to be mostly basic most of the time, and simply exhaust the D.

 

The Niners O is ever bit as revolutionary, but seeks to accomplish something altogether different. They take a completely different approach and use every available second on the clock and rest their defense.

 

Watch the game on sunday with what I have said and you will understand a bit more about what I'm saying. BTW...so much of what I'm talking about has NOTHING to do with the passing game. Whams, Traps, Draws, Read-Option...you name it. You'll see just about every run play ever designed.

[rayzor]

harbaugh wanted cam. settled for kaep.

[Rook35200]

Nobody does pre-snap reads better than Peyton Manning and he consistently goes through progressions.

We do the same thing here in Carolina and Cam has to go through progressions.

Harbaugh has not reinvented the wheel in some super secret offense that only has two progressions.

 

 

...and you don't know what you are talking about. Thats EXACTLY what he's done.

 

Its different than what Peyton or Cam are running. Look up Todd Mortenson...he was the first QB Harbaugh had at USD.

 

The Niners (and Stanford still BTW...and now the Colts with Pep Hamilton as the OC now) go to the line on every down with 2 or 3 plays called in the huddle. You will see Kap say something like "Let it roll", "Green, Green, Green", or "Kill, Kill, Kill". That signals which play is actually going to be run. There was a tweet last week about how Case Keenum was in his first start and didn't have a wristband with plays on it yet Luck in his second season did. The reason is the mutliple plays in the huddle. Hell, at Stanford, Luck had one and an offensive lineman had another for him to reference because they couldn't get it all on one wristband. No joke.

 

They then run audibles ON TOP OF THAT. It also creates issues with them not getting plays off in time and presents big issues in noisy atmospheres...like Seattle.

 

Moreover, the Niners very often will run jumbo set with 1 or 2 receivers in the pattern. Why? They are running HEAVY play action. They'l go to the line with an extra lineman, 2 TEs a RB and FB...and throw DEEP to Vernon for a score.

 

There are times that there is one viable target to pass to because they rest are there to block downfield. They did that several times for first downs to Crabtree. I'm not talking about flanker screens either. I'm talking passes over the middle.

 

All of this pales in comparision to all the stuff they do in the running game, but thats a whole other subject.

 

 

Exactly, you just said very often the 49ers run jumbo sets with 1 or 2 receivers in the pattern, which means very often Kaep only has to go through 2 progressions. He is not a developed progression QB. I've seen every 49er game the past 3 years. Alex Smith did the same exact thing when he was the QB. When asked to do more in 3 or 4 receiver sets with progressions neither were very successful

[Marvin49]

If you think that San Francisco runs a unique offense, you are wrong.  Usually teams have multiple plays they can call from each formation.  They also have have multiple formations they can use with each personnel grouping.  Every team has multiple plays and audibles they use based on what defense they see when they go to the line of scrimmage.  They have the option to change the play and keep the formation, or change the formation and change the play.  Then when the defense calls an audible they can further modify the play or call a hot read on a blitz, etc.  

They can also send folks into motion to determine what coverage the defense is in or shift people to overload specific areas of the field.  Then there is the whole notion of post snap reads to determine where you throw the ball or whether you hand it off or keep it and run yourself, etc. 

 

The only teams that don't use this whole gamut are teams that have quarterbacks who can't do all of it due to inexperience or lack of ability.  If Kaepernick can only go to 1 or 2 reads at most, it is simply a function of lack of experience based on limited time in the current system not by design.  As he plays more games and develops he will learn to do more and become a complete quarterback much like Newton has learned to do.  What Harbaugh does well  is maximize his play calling based on what his quarterback does the best. So he designs plays based on what Kaepernick can do now.  As he develops the play calling will emphasize more reads and complexity.  Kaepernick was picked over Alex Smith based on his potential and athleticism and will get better over time.  Cam is in his 3rd year and Kaep is only 16 games into his career.  He can't be expected to be that advanced at this point.

 

LOL. If you say so. I'm telling you this is different. You don't believe me and that's your right. No worries.

 

OF COURSE every team does shifts to determine the Ds intent presnap. OF COURSE all teams have audibles and the options to check into different plays. None of this is news to me.

 

That's not the same as what I'm talking about. Believe me or don't...no matter.

[Marvin49]

harbaugh wanted cam. settled for kaep.

 

Could be. I know he liked them both quite a bit. The price would have been far too high to move up from 7 to get Cam. They would have AT LEAST had to give up their second round pick in that move and I'd take Aldon Smith and Kaepernick any day of the week over Cam all by himself.

[rayzor]

and i'll take cam and keek over kaep and aldon any day.

[Marvin49]

Exactly, you just said very often the 49ers run jumbo sets with 1 or 2 receivers in the pattern, which means very often Kaep only has to go through 2 progressions. He is not a developed progression QB. I've seen every 49er game the past 3 years. Alex Smith did the same exact thing when he was the QB. When asked to do more in 3 or 4 receiver sets with progressions neither were very successful

 

I suppose that's fair.

 

Kap was RAW coming out of college. He is improving as a progression passer, but the system he plays in really does protect him in that regard.

 

The kid is bright tho (4.0 GPA, scored 38 on wonderlick) so I'm pretty sure he'll figure it out. I just hope he doesn't get hurt running around too much before he does.