Jonathon Martin

[Matthias]

I agree this whole thing is starting to get weird, again.  There is a whole mess of conflicting reports from both sides.  The voice mail that was so appalling, there's now reports that Martin was playing it for teammates and having a good laugh.  Also if that is true, how is it that the Dolphins organization seem like they had no idea about the voicemail?  Then there's the whole lunchroom prank.  Now it turns out that Martin knew of this type of prank, and in fact have participated in it in the past.  So I don't know, I'll wait until Martin finishes his detailed report.  It could be that he was just going along with everything, but on the inside he didn't like the things going on.  That's understandable, but a lot of people got condemned in this thing and it's turning out there might not have been as big a villian in this situation as we first thought.

 

 

All I know is, after this situation, all hazing should be banned from the league.  It's dumb college stuff and has no place in a grown man's world. 

 

 

Edit:  Oh, and the weirdest part in this whole thing, was the messages from who deadspin allegedly stated was from Incognito's father.  Was there any real confirmation that this was Ricthie's father?  I always found that one to be fishy simply because if his father wanted to make a statement, it would have been more official and not through a message board.  Even if he wanted to respond through a message board, I think he would have been a little more inconspicuous.  Yet the whole thing about Martin attempted to commit suicide three times was very fishy.  If Martin had issues with depression to this level, I think that would have been something of public knowledge.  Yet I wasn't familiar with any kind of problem concerning Martin when he came out of college.

[BigBoss]

This article is a must read for an informed opinion on the matter. A real perspective.

 

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

[Mr. Scot]

Greg Schiano is actually a nice guy too.

And Jeff Fisher's players aren't dirty, just misunderstood.

[frash.exe]

I haven't read this entire thread so I apologize if already posted but fascinating take from Ricky Williams defending Incognito;

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000277233/article/ricky-williams-maybe-martin-doesnt-belong-in-nfl

"How is bullying something that's even mentioned regarding the NFL?" Williams wondered. "Because that's kind of what we're taught to do -- at least on the field -- is to bully the guy across from us so we can win the football game.

"It's kind of what we're subjected to on a day-to-day basis that most people will never be able to understand. ... What we're required to do physically, mentally and emotionally for the course of a season is astronomical -- it's amazing," Williams added. "And I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm saying it just really speaks to what it takes to be a professional football player. And to me there's no room to play the victim or to be bullied or to even have that discussion when it comes to the NFL. If you're having that discussion, it just means that maybe you don't belong in the NFL."

This is literally coming from a guy who was so socially inept he had to wear a helmet and visor during press conferences so he could avoid eye contact

[PntherPryd]

This is literally coming from a guy who was so socially inept he had to wear a helmet and visor during press conferences so he could avoid eye contact

 

 

 

And yet he was the first of a growing number of players siding with Incognito and publicly coming out in support.  His voice gave Tannehill and others in that locker room  the impetus to essentially agree and come out on Incognito's side in this dispute (which shows no sign of dying and going away).

[csx]

There is going to be some pretty big backtracking going on in the media and all those who who lunged at the chance to make a judgement of all involved based upon little to no knowledge of the situation. fuging media

[Delhommey]

 

There will always be locker-room assholes. They should be curtailed. And when a player says he needs time off for mental reasons — again: in a sport with a suicide problem — it shouldn't spark a national conversation on whether he's soft.

I am here to hurt you, so I'll also say this: You're a warrior, cool. What the hell are you a warrior for? I'm sorry if this makes it sound like I have emotions other than anger — I assure you that I don't — but tell me this: What's the point of being strong if all you stand for is abusing a suffering teammate? Those guys who taught me that when you see a problem, you step up and solve it, all those anonymous sources foaming on about how to be a man — is that what they think "being a man" is? I mean, nothing about protecting someone who's struggling in your big gender equation, then? Nothing about, like, knowing right from wrong?

Here's what I can't stop thinking: There were so many tough men in that Dolphins locker room. The unwritten code of football is that you handle your business in-house. Any one of these men could have said something to stop Incognito and help Martin. Any one of them could have handled it. They're warriors, right? They're paragons of strength. And yeah, there are complex reasons why they didn't. But they didn't.

 

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9939308/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-miami-dolphins-bullying-scandal

 

A must read.

[PantherFanOne]

Martin is accusing the Dolphins of more than good-natured hazing. However, he mislabeled it as bullying instead of workplace harassment, potentially a serious violation of federal employment law.

Civil rights laws deem it illegal to harass a player based on race, religion, gender, marital status, sexual orientation and a host of other categories. With the way these laws have been expanded, everybody falls into a protected category. Federal courts take a dim view of employee harassment if management knew about it and did not act to stop it.

When you read "dim view," think "big financial hit

[Proudiddy]

I thought this a little earlier on when the voicemails were released, but I didn't bring it up here... but now,with the reaction of the other Dolphins' players and now with Tannehill's comments, what if:

Martin really wasn't bullied? What if he truly did view Incognito as a brother? What if he just got tired of the grind of professiinal football and wanted a break from it? So, maybe he quit, but he didn't want to be viewed as a quitter, so he blamed it on something that would allow him to return to football without being questioned... a 'leave of absence' if you will. What if he just didnt want to play specifically for the Dolphins anymore? The heat started coming after he left, with people wanting to know why he just got up and left. Maybe he started seeing the tide turn against him and wondered if he would be able to return back to football when he's ready. He started to hear everyone and their mother call him soft. So, he releases a convenient voicemail to the public and now he will be free to play again when it all blows over.

Incognito seems like annoying douchey-ness comes naturally to him. I also get the feeling that he was given a hood pass to use the N-word from guys like Pouncey. But in my lifetime, I've never seen that turn out well for the white guy who uses such language, regardless of who gave him the 'OK,' and it's just plain dumb. Could it be Incognito is just an obnoxious a-hole who became an easy scapegoat and Martin is just playing an overly sensitive public waiting on a cause to get behind, like a fiddle?

[Cary Kollins]

I'm pretty disgusted with the entire Dolphins organization at this point.  Especially the players. 

 

Brian Hartline was asked if Martin would be welcome back to the locker room.  He said "That's not my position to take on that. I do have a position, but I don't think it's fair to share it."

 

Tyson Clabo: "I think if you have a problem with somebody -- a legitimate problem with somebody -- you should say, 'I have a problem with this,' and stand up and be a man,"

 

Tannehill:   "Jonathan's like Richie's little brother," Tannehill said. "He gave him a hard time and he messed with him, but he was the first one there to have his back in any situation. It's a big surprise what's going on."

 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/2748/pro-incognito-fins-leave-no-room-for-martin

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24196050/ryan-tannehill-jonathan-martin-was-like-incognitos-little-brother

 

 

disgusting.

[Happy Panther]

Something doesn't add up.

 

You have the voicemail which is hard to gloss over and we know that Martin's agent went to the GM specifically to complain about Incognito and we know that the coaches asked Incognito to toughen up Martin. Martin filed a player misconduct complaint.

 

Yet the coaches know nothing and the players have come out almost unanimously saying its all a misunderstanding and they were best buds. And incognito is a great guy and one of the brothers.

 

Yet he has a history of racism (so does his dad) both anecdotallly and on video and was kicked out of 2 schools for getting in trouble with the law.

 

Seems like an all around meathead racist asshole yet I'm getting the sense that the Dolphins are going to do all they can to make it seem otherwise.

[Happy Panther]

I thought this a little earlier on when the voicemails were released, but I didn't bring it up here... but now,with the reaction of the other Dolphins' players and now with Tannehill's comments, what if:

Martin really wasn't bullied? What if he truly did view Incognito as a brother? What if he just got tired of the grind of professiinal football and wanted a break from it? So, maybe he quit, but he didn't want to be viewed as a quitter, so he blamed it on something that would allow him to return to football without being questioned... a 'leave of absence' if you will. What if he just didnt want to play specifically for the Dolphins anymore? The heat started coming after he left, with people wanting to know why he just got up and left. Maybe he started seeing the tide turn against him and wondered if he would be able to return back to football when he's ready. He started to hear everyone and their mother call him soft. So, he releases a convenient voicemail to the public and now he will be free to play again when it all blows over.

 

 

Could be, but he went to the GM before he left to complain specifically about Incognito. He didn't make it up after the fact.

[Cary Kollins]

I thought this a little earlier on when the voicemails were released, but I didn't bring it up here... but now,with the reaction of the other Dolphins' players and now with Tannehill's comments, what if:

Martin really wasn't bullied? What if he truly did view Incognito as a brother? What if he just got tired of the grind of professiinal football and wanted a break from it? So, maybe he quit, but he didn't want to be viewed as a quitter, so he blamed it on something that would allow him to return to football without being questioned... a 'leave of absence' if you will. What if he just didnt want to play specifically for the Dolphins anymore? The heat started coming after he left, with people wanting to know why he just got up and left. Maybe he started seeing the tide turn against him and wondered if he would be able to return back to football when he's ready. He started to hear everyone and their mother call him soft. So, he releases a convenient voicemail to the public and now he will be free to play again when it all blows over.

Incognito seems like annoying douchey-ness comes naturally to him. I also get the feeling that he was given a hood pass to use the N-word from guys like Pouncey. But in my lifetime, I've never seen that turn out well for the white guy who uses such language, regardless of who gave him the 'OK,' and it's just plain dumb. Could it be Incognito is just an obnoxious a-hole who became an easy scapegoat and Martin is just playing an overly sensitive public waiting on a cause to get behind, like a fiddle?

 

 

 

Did you read the transcript?  What part of "I'm going to make you eat poo" or "half-n*gger" or "i'm going to slap your real mother" do you not get?

 

 

Why would Martin walk away from a NFL contract and check into a hospital?  Just to get the public behind a cause?

 

 

Doesn't add up to me.

[stirs]

So, we go from labeling Martin in the beginning, to labeling Incognito, to now, not knowing what the heck to think.

 

Glad I did not go all in early on with this one.