Meeks will prove to be the best acquisition of the offseason

[Metal_Sparty]

Gman gets the honor of being my first on the ignore list. Dude just spouts the same 2 or 3 sentences nonstop.

Anyway, like everyone else I'm just sitting back and waiting to see what comes out at TC and when the preseason before I think too much.

[panthers55]

True, which is why I said it was a very diverse base to come from, but the overall goal is to mix a reactive zone coverage both deep to the outside and typically midfield (safties and a linebacker, usually the middle) with strong man-to-man coverage on the remaining pass threats (cornerbacks and usually a linebacker if its not a nickel package). Thus, a blend of the speed of strict man-to-man and the read-and-react of zone.

On an offshoot, would anyone expect a half inverted option with Harris stepping up to make plays midfield and Marshall covering one of the deep zones? Marshall would need a little more conditioning to pull that off effectively, but I could see it happening.

I actually expect us to use a cover 2 zone or tampa 2 zone. I would actually like to see an aggressive man under but in Tampa and Indy they pretty much ran total zone. They can still have the corners play aggressive and bump receivers off the line but instead of following them in man coverage they hand them off as the receiver moves into another zone. I have hoped for years that Fox will run a man scheme and blitz aggressively like Philly does, but I have been disappointed so far and don't expect much different this year. Harris is the one issue really as he is very good in run coverage but pretty suspect against the pass. That is why they went to a cover 3 last year with the corners and Godfrey deep and Harris in the box. We might go that way as well. Problem for me is that the corners play deep and other teams can simply throw underneath at will.

[Pimpdaddy]

There was a lot of talk last year at this time also.......

Sorry, until I see something really different I will assume Fox is going to bring his basic plan on both sides of the ball every year. Trgo basically has implied if you are going to coach under Fox that Fox is going to have control over the defense. Fox is have proven to be as stubborn as they come in my book.

obviously, I am in the minority on this one........so I guess that means I am the only bright one of the bunch........or I guess maybe there is a tiny microscopic chance I maybe possibly could be wrong.

Ur all over it... Fox is a micro manager... thats why we still run the smoke route from the 'Henning playbook'. The only reason the offense was worth a poo last year was because of the extrordinary talent of Dwill and Stewart. Oh, and talk of Pep being interested in a along term contract now lends creedence to Turgo being the problem? Hes dumber than I thought. We seem to have the personel inplace to make a run but if we go 7-9 again, well do you see a pattern? Its almost to the point where Dungy had the Bucs until that fricken Gruden came in and took them to the next level.

[CRA]

CRA when I left earlier today you said

When I come back tonight you spent the day trying to put Down Coach Fox. Dude give it rest You're stretching the truth beyond all recognition. You're fencing with everybody here who doesn't understand it is foolish to debate someone who changes his position continuously as long he can torque it to blame everything on John Fox. You have issues with authority figures in your life? Because you are not showing any sense of integrity regarding these discussions.

Perhaps if you tried using some integrity in these discussions it would help you in whatever it is that is causing you trouble in your life. My intuition tells me this is so . . . try it out.

You're causing trouble for yourself on this board does it in some way parallel your troubles at work?

Looking at the bold quote above . . .Your PERCEPTION of John Fox is different from you HOW?

Really . . . THINK about it!

Psychotherapy via Message Board

thanks Dr. Phil....but we were just short staffed at work, that is all.

integrity in these discussions? Sorry for the crazy comments that Fox is too conservative and a micro manager......I don't know where I could have come up w/ such crazy thoughts.

[rayzor]

come up with the quotes from people on or associated with the team or from people who actually know what they are talking about to support your statements and you might have people believing that you have an informed opinion. if you are making the statements that fox micro-manages games and gives his coaches no freedom to run the scheme their way then you need to come up with proof.

the players area all talking about how very different things are and how much they have to learn. the players are all talking about the differences. are they liars? are they ill-informed and/or naive? are they talking out of their collective butts...or are you? someone is. people who have been there and watched them...people who have actually seen what is going on and have been around to compare it with previous OTAs and practices have given their evidence. burden is on the haters to back up their crap.

[panthers55]

come up with the quotes from people on or associated with the team or from people who actually know what they are talking about to support your statements and you might have people believing that you have an informed opinion. if you are making the statements that fox micro-manages games and gives his coaches no freedom to run the scheme their way then you need to come up with proof.

the players area all talking about how very different things are and how much they have to learn. the players are all talking about the differences. are they liars? are they ill-informed and/or naive? are they talking out of their collective butts...or are you? someone is. people who have been there and watched them...people who have actually seen what is going on and have been around to compare it with previous OTAs and practices have given their evidence. burden is on the haters to back up their crap.

The problem is that if these guys actually did some research and read articles and tried to gain some perspective they wouldn't have such biased negative opinions. Additionally most folks only read what agrees with their already formed opinion and aren't looking to learn anything new. Haters hate no matter what. But as you say, back it up or expect to be dismissed without serious consideration.

I don't agree with Fox some of the time and wish he were less conservative but all things considered he is doing a good job and both he and Hurney are learning and improving.

[rayzor]

The problem is that if these guys actually did some research and read articles and tried to gain some perspective they wouldn't have such biased negative opinions. Additionally most folks only read what agrees with their already formed opinion and aren't looking to learn anything new. Haters hate no matter what. But as you say, back it up or expect to be dismissed without serious consideration.

I don't agree with Fox some of the time and wish he were less conservative but all things considered he is doing a good job and both he and Hurney are learning and improving.

i was one of those guys calling for fox's head after the '07 season. i fully believed that while trgo was a huge problem that fox and even hurney were the biggest ones. going into and during the '08 season my eyes opened up and i think that they had a turn-around. i think the criticisms that i had of them were warranted but they have changed things enough to make it a winning team. the evidence is there to support it.

the evidence is that fox is letting meeks do his things. the evidence shows that he has been taking a hands off approach to meeks and the other coaches. the evidence this offseason is that meeks and the other coaches are doing things differently than in the past. the evidence is that the players all agree that things are changing where there are new coaches. the evidence is that there is a new scheme that they are having to learn. the evidence is there that they are concentrating on fundamentals and technique more-so than before. the evidence is there that the defense is faster and has a new aggressive attitude that wasn't prevalent before. there are witnesses.

what is there to support that none of this is actually happening? what evidence is there to support that nothing is changing or will change? what evidence is there to support the idea that fox is micro managing? what concrete evidence is there to back up the assumption that fox is a puppet master? and don't pull that "it's just widely known that is the case" because that argument is bunk. it's weak sauce. if it is widely known you would be able to back it up with actual quotes from people who actually know what is going on. bring it in with evidence. bring proof. prove you assumptions and your claims. i dare you to start looking for it.

more than that i dare you to challenge your own thinking and look at it a bit more objectively. i have and i did and the evidence i found showed that i was wrong and it is showing that you are wrong. until you can pull something out that shows that you have something to actually back up your claims they are going to be seen as coming from a very closed minded individual who isn't worth carrying on this or much of any conversations with.

[panthers55]

i was one of those guys calling for fox's head after the '07 season. i fully believed that while trgo was a huge problem that fox and even hurney were the biggest ones. going into and during the '08 season my eyes opened up and i think that they had a turn-around. i think the criticisms that i had of them were warranted but they have changed things enough to make it a winning team. the evidence is there to support it.

the evidence is that fox is letting meeks do his things. the evidence shows that he has been taking a hands off approach to meeks and the other coaches. the evidence this offseason is that meeks and the other coaches are doing things differently than in the past. the evidence is that the players all agree that things are changing where there are new coaches. the evidence is that there is a new scheme that they are having to learn. the evidence is there that they are concentrating on fundamentals and technique more-so than before. the evidence is there that the defense is faster and has a new aggressive attitude that wasn't prevalent before. there are witnesses.

what is there to support that none of this is actually happening? what evidence is there to support that nothing is changing or will change? what evidence is there to support the idea that fox is micro managing? what concrete evidence is there to back up the assumption that fox is a puppet master? and don't pull that "it's just widely known that is the case" because that argument is bunk. it's weak sauce. if it is widely known you would be able to back it up with actual quotes from people who actually know what is going on. bring it in with evidence. bring proof. prove you assumptions and your claims. i dare you to start looking for it.

more than that i dare you to challenge your own thinking and look at it a bit more objectively. i have and i did and the evidence i found showed that i was wrong and it is showing that you are wrong. until you can pull something out that shows that you have something to actually back up your claims they are going to be seen as coming from a very closed minded individual who isn't worth carrying on this or much of any conversations with.

Since you and I are on the same page about this, I know that the you doesn't refer to me specifically but to the "you" who are haters out there. Just wanted to clarify.

[rayzor]

Since you and I are on the same page about this, I know that the you doesn't refer to me specifically but to the "you" who are haters out there. Just wanted to clarify.

yeah...sorry. i was calling out the closed minded haters. same stuff applies to the closed minded homers as well. i don't consider you in either camp. sorry if that wasn't obvious.

obviously opinions are going to be shaded according to the color lens we use. the challenge is to not let that shading cloud your judgment or ability to form rational and well informed opinions and keep from talking out your anus.

[Fireball77]

I don't agree with Fox some of the time and wish he were less conservative but all things considered he is doing a good job and both he and Hurney are learning and improving.

I agree 100%.

It's hard for most people to be objective about the abilities of people they dislike/hate though. I struggle with it also, but I try to be fair. Of course, I don't hate anyone on this team or associated with this team, so right now that's easy for me to say! My biggest test was when Carr was playing. I really really REALLY despised him...a lot.

[rayzor]

Yeah, there have been some major boneheaded decisions that have been made in the past. Carr was one of the big ones as was relying on players like foster for far too long. game management has been a huge one for me but i have faith, based on changes i have seen being made, that they are overcoming that. until they prove otherwise, they have given me more than enough reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Fireball77]

There is an AWESOME interview with DeAngelo Williams in this magazine called "PRO FORECAST Fantasy Football. You know I really think it is awesome because I actually purchased a FF magazine (there's a first time for everything) just so I could have a copy of the interview. Anyway, Williams is asked about Fox and he says Fox is a players' coach in the sense that he knows guys' bodies and minds. Also he said "IT IS WHAT IT IS" about Fox which was hilarious, but anyway...the point is that as long as players believe in him and will play for him his positives outweigh his negatives. HC and QB are the two positions where if you lose your LR, you gotta go.

[Jangler]

This lovefest must stop!

[rayzor]

This lovefest must stop!

why do you have kelly rippa in your sig?