Meeks will prove to be the best acquisition of the offseason

[CRA]

I want my cake and eat it too. I want my cake and eat it to. I want me cake and eat it too, I want me cake and eat it to. I want my cake and eat it to. I want my cake and eat it to...

Stop flip flopping. Make a stand and stick to it...

that isn't a flip flop....people simply keeping saying Fox doesn't take over and control the defense b/c he is "technically" not calling the plays in. The D we saw last season (the soft zone bs that got destroyed the entire 2nd half) was Fox's defense and not Trgo's.

People want to pin on the guy that left.......and imo that is just ignoring the reality of it.

Again, why did Trgo turn down the job and then go take a lesser job? You don't see that often in the NFL by choice.....

[CRA]

At any rate, it's beyond obvious that they are running Meeks' system right now. You would have to be pretty dense not to see that.

how is it beyond obvious? They haven't even played a single preseason snap. Front 4 rush and a soft zone is what we will see again this year.....b/c that is the D Fox runs. I also expect to see the WR cushion make a comeback again next season......

[CRA]

I think CRA would argue with the Devil today.:reddevil: He has not agreed with anyone's post yet......

it's been a bad week and work.....and this helps the time go by. I'll try to keep it down some.......

[QuasiYoda]

it's been a bad week and work.....and this helps the time go by. I'll try to keep it down some.......

Hope things work out for you at work.

As far as Fox is concerned when he has tried to get fancy it has bitten him back. Like the Play in Minnesota that cost us the game maybe 3 years ago. Something like passing across the field on a kick reception. Also another play of two that year with similar catastrophic results. Since then he has not been into "trick plays" but that is OK in my book.

"Trick Plays" are for teams that don't have the personnel to get it done otherwise. So often you'll see a new coach run a lot of em but as he gets the right team together those plays fall away because the Risk Reward doesn't add up. A team who can get it done more conservatively is risking the value of their strength when they run a TP. While a weak team is trying to over come their weaknesses.

Hey, if a power running game big play offense is what you call conservative that is OK with me just a matter of perception or semantics. I think with the ball rolling our way a few times we could have a Super Bowl Team here. And I will enjoy the season immensely.

[panthers55]

that isn't a flip flop....people simply keeping saying Fox doesn't take over and control the defense b/c he is "technically" not calling the plays in. The D we saw last season (the soft zone bs that got destroyed the entire 2nd half) was Fox's defense and not Trgo's.

People want to pin on the guy that left.......and imo that is just ignoring the reality of it.

Again, why did Trgo turn down the job and then go take a lesser job? You don't see that often in the NFL by choice.....

Unless you were in the meetings you have no idea who contributed to what or whose philosophy it was to employ the scheme they did. You obviously are way too simplistic in your thinking. You discuss Fox and Trgo for example but don't even mention that Lewis was the defensive backfield/ secondary coach. What so you think he contributed?

Do you know that what we ran last year-cover 3, was not what we ran for example in 2006. And do you know that the cover 3 was the same coverage we ran in the first 5 games when we were ranked in the top 5 as when we supposed fell apart in the second half of the year.

As for Trgo leaving, his stated reason was that he wasn't having fun anymore. He stated that he needed a break and preferrred less responsibility. I think he was a defensive line coach good at his job who initially looked at the defensive coordinator job as something he wanted and an opportunity. I get the feeling that he decided that DC is alot more pressure and hassle than DL coach and left to take a job with less hassle. He obviously couldn't do that here so he went to Green Bay.

how is it beyond obvious? They haven't even played a single preseason snap. Front 4 rush and a soft zone is what we will see again this year.....b/c that is the D Fox runs. I also expect to see the WR cushion make a comeback again next season......

The difference between a cover 3 and cover 2 as we will employ is significant. In a cover 3 as we used it, the corners and the free safety play deep each covering a third of the field. The strong safety plays up and the linebackers cover the short zones.

In a traditional cover 2 the safeties play deep, and the linebackers and corners split the field into five zones. Consequently the corners play closer to the line of scrimmage and can bump players off the line, for example.

Here is a good discussion of the schemes. But to say zone coverage is all soft or the same every time is very simplistic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_defense_in_American_football

http://www.letstalkdefense.com/cover2.html

[CRA]

As for Trgo leaving, his stated reason was that he wasn't having fun anymore. He stated that he needed a break and preferrred less responsibility. I think he was a defensive line coach good at his job who initially looked at the defensive coordinator job as something he wanted and an opportunity. I get the feeling that he decided that DC is alot more pressure and hassle than DL coach and left to take a job with less hassle. He obviously couldn't do that here so he went to Green Bay.

The difference between a cover 3 and cover 2 as we will employ is significant. In a cover 3 as we used it, the corners and the free safety play deep each covering a third of the field. The strong safety plays up and the linebackers cover the short zones.

In a traditional cover 2 the safeties play deep, and the linebackers and corners split the field into five zones. Consequently the corners play closer to the line of scrimmage and can bump players off the line, for example.

Here is a good discussion of the schemes. But to say zone coverage is all soft or the same every time is very simplistic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_defense_in_American_football

http://www.letstalkdefense.com/cover2.html

Trgo has said (in very nice words)he left b/c he couldn't work under Fox. Again, your view on this is simply to paint him as a guy who couldn't hack it and left......most outside of Carolina few it as guy who could no longer coach under Fox......

also, only people on message boards talk about running a cover 2 next season.....Fox and Meeks have both been asked about that and neither will committ to it......the only thing we really hear from players is that exact same language being tossed around that was used last year prior to the season.

[bleys]

that isn't a flip flop....people simply keeping saying Fox doesn't take over and control the defense b/c he is "technically" not calling the plays in. The D we saw last season (the soft zone bs that got destroyed the entire 2nd half) was Fox's defense and not Trgo's.

People want to pin on the guy that left.......and imo that is just ignoring the reality of it.

Again, why did Trgo turn down the job and then go take a lesser job? You don't see that often in the NFL by choice.....

you're right, I think you answered your own question, only a HORRIBLE DC will do such a thing.

Beason commented last off season that HE, a ROOKIE, would have to step in and say "You're causing paralysis by analysis." He didn't say that to Fox.

also, only people on message boards talk about running a cover 2 next season.....Fox and Meeks have both been asked about that and neither will committ to it......the only thing we really hear from players is that exact same language being tossed around that was used last year prior to the season.

Check Panthers.com for OTA interviews... I believe they both have commented on it quite a bit. Although they have mentioned there are a few differences, one main one being how the dline lines up.

[bleys]

Trgo has said (in very nice words)he left b/c he couldn't work under Fox. Again, your view on this is simply to paint him as a guy who couldn't hack it and left......most outside of Carolina few it as guy who could no longer coach under Fox......

also, only people on message boards talk about running a cover 2 next season.....Fox and Meeks have both been asked about that and neither will committ to it......the only thing we really hear from players is that exact same language being tossed around that was used last year prior to the season.

Fox has talked about Cover 2 and I believe Meeks has as well. Check the OTAs video on panthers.com. They also said it wasn't a true cover2 by the way they have the d-line set up. Using Kemo as a nose tackle and Lewis to try to shoot the gap.

We've also heard from many players that the scheme is different...

---------------------------

and on that note, and you all expecting to see a 5-2 or a 6 and 7/16ths, Fox also mentioned that most defenses are a variation of cover 2... That they don't differ that much.

Just thought I'd throw that in there for you all expecting to see something never heard of just so you can say the "scheme has changed"...

[pantherclaw]

i expect we'll give up more big plays under Meeks - the aggressive style of play will allow a few big ones to slip through now and then. but we'll be vaunted.

You and others who are predicting a more aggressive defense, do know the Tampa 2 is more of a read and react defense?

I will say just Meeks stressing on the fundamentals, and simplifying things, and letting our defensive athletes play, should make the defense look more agressive in general, as our defense should play more consistently (I hope).

[bleys]

You and others who are predicting a more aggressive defense, do know the Tampa 2 is more of a read and react defense?

I will say just Meeks stressing on the fundamentals, and simplifying things, and letting our defensive athletes play, should make the defense look more agressive in general, as our defense should play more consistently (I hope).

definitely agree, the fact that people are complaining about Fox controlling everything under the sun are missing this huge factor... Or should I say, dismissing it.

[pantherclaw]

Anyways, pretty sure we won't be an all tampa 2 defense. Of course, until regular season, it is all just a guessing game.

For those worried about run defense, should always remember that one of Fox's team priorities, is stopping the run. That hasn't changed, and our personal is much better suited for stopping the run, than the Colts were ~ even with Bob Sanders healthy.

As far as CRA's rants, he flip flops too much for me to consider getting into that debate.

[monstercat]

how is it beyond obvious? They haven't even played a single preseason snap. Front 4 rush and a soft zone is what we will see again this year.....b/c that is the D Fox runs. I also expect to see the WR cushion make a comeback again next season......

When every single defensive player that has been asked, all say that things are different now...it's pretty damned obvious that it's different. Call me crazy.

[CRA]

Anyways, pretty sure we won't be an all tampa 2 defense. Of course, until regular season, it is all just a guessing game.

For those worried about run defense, should always remember that one of Fox's team priorities, is stopping the run. That hasn't changed, and our personal is much better suited for stopping the run, than the Colts were ~ even with Bob Sanders healthy.

As far as CRA's rants, he flip flops too much for me to consider getting into that debate.

I don't see any flip flops, I just not on the homer level where I think a significant change is coming to Carolina b/c of a new coordiantor. We didn't see one w/ Richardson and aren't going to see one w/ Meeks. Regardless, it is a John Fox offense and defense and he will make sure of it. There will be a unique tweak a coordinator may bring in but they are going to run Fox's offense and defense.......it is what it is. Meeks isn't going to create a new defense........the play of our defensive players may improve (like on offense) but I don't expect anything out of the ordinary to change w/ Fox as the head coach.

Fox is a defensive coach and he will do the exact same thing w/ Meeks he did w/ Trgo......micro manage the D. IMO

[monstercat]

I don't see any flip flops, I just not on the homer level where I think a significant change is coming to Carolina b/c of a new coordiantor. We didn't see one w/ Richardson and aren't going to see one w/ Meeks. Regardless, it is a John Fox offense and defense and he will make sure of it. There will be a unique tweak a coordinator may bring in but they are going to run Fox's offense and defense.......it is what it is. Meeks isn't going to create a new defense........the play of our defensive players may improve (like on offense) but I don't expect anything out of the ordinary to change w/ Fox as the head coach.

Fox is a defensive coach and he will do the exact same thing w/ Meeks he did w/ Trgo......micro manage the D. IMO

Dude...every single defensive player that was at OTA's has said that they're learning new schemes and doing new drills. How do you get that Fox is micro managing the defense from that? It sure sounds to me like Fox and Meeks are on the same page, and that Fox is letting him run the show.