JR, Gettleman and Cam

[TheRed]

Too early on this one. Probably 1, maybe both. IF DWill ballz out all year. It would be hard to justify letting him get away. IF Stewy comes back, proves he can stay healthy, and ballz out. That could open the door for some wheeling and dealing.

 

I didn't mean both gone, I meant both together might not be.

 

Goes without saying, but Stewart has to get on the field if he is going to stay.

[CRA]

But CRA, even without people mentioning over-rating comments you already downplay him after he has done what is expected of him (mostly) this year. You seem to always do this unprovoked

I am replying to posts

[Razeyfingers]

No they aren't. Olsen maybe.

Williams isn't above average. Smith isn't either anymore....not based on the role they are playing here.

 

 

I am replying to posts

 

You replied to a post that already downplayed him. . thats still unprovoked. The fact is that Williams is doing very well in the "role" youre talking about. If you dont think so then tell me in what way. Tell me what more he can do to "earn" a positive value. Since we're speaking in CRA terms and philosophy. . tell me what his worth should be.

[CRA]

You replied to a post that already downplayed him. . thats still unprovoked. The fact is that Williams is doing very well in the "role" youre talking about. If you dont think so then tell me in what way. Tell me what more he can do to "earn" a positive value. Since we're speaking in CRA terms and philosophy. . tell me what his worth should be.

I replied to a post that implied Newton had better weapons than he does....and I also didn't single out just Williams.  How did that post already downplay him? 

 

WIlliams is a top 10 paid RB and due to injury is now essentially getting a featured RB work load.  That his role he is in.  His check says in that role he should be great.  

 

Cam Newton accounts for all TDs except 2 for this offense.  Williams none.  The one top 10 rush D he faced....he managed 39 yards.  To be worth his value he needs to make more plays and against good teams.  Why was AZ able to tee off on our O?  No run game....got us in 3rd and long all day.  Made us one dimensional.

 

Since 2011 he has been a roleplayer....what do the Saints pay their RBs?   That is what we should be paying for that type work. No one would say a negative remark about him being a good roleplayer, paid to be such.

 

 

102 touches,  488 total yards, 0 TDs

 

vs

 

98 touches - 637 total yards, 3 TDs

96 touches, 510 total yards, 4 TDs

100 touches, 562 total yards, 3 TDs

 

 

That for example....is why Williams isn't earning his check nor playing great.   He is just a "good" RB.  We are  paying for great.  (the other guys listed aren't great).  Just some some random RB not paid top 10 money.....

 

Bottom line, Williams needs to do more.

[Razeyfingers]

Cam Newton accounts for all TDs except 2 for this offense.  Williams none.  The one top 10 rush D he faced....he managed 39 yards.  To be worth his value he needs to make more plays and against good teams.  Why was AZ able to tee off on our O?  No run game....got us in 3rd and long all day.  Made us one dimensional.

 

Since 2011 he has been a roleplayer....what do the Saints pay their RBs?   That is what we should be paying for that type work. No one would say a negative remark about him being a good roleplayer, paid to be such.

 

Bottom line, Williams needs to do more.

 

I keep asking you but you dont wanna answer. . . What does he need to do more? You want to quote me stats of teams that dont use a Fullback threat and a QB threat on the goalline. D'Lo seems to play pretty well in our system. Thats been the case for a long time too. He's always done what is expected and more. Every coach in Carolina disagrees with you. lol

 

You paint this picture with numbers and then cant answer the question, what good is that then? What does Williams need to do more of?

[CRA]

I keep asking you but you dont wanna answer. . . What does he need to do more? You want to quote me stats of teams that dont use a Fullback threat and a QB threat on the goalline. D'Lo seems to play pretty well in our system. Thats been the case for a long time too. He's always done what is expected and more. Every coach in Carolina disagrees with you. lol

You paint this picture with numbers and then cant answer the question, what good is that then? What does Williams need to do more of?

More of everything....I just told you. Need to be more a more diverse RB and make more plays

102 touches, 488 total yards, 0 TDs

vs

98 touches - 637 total yards, 3 TDs

96 touches, 510 total yards, 4 TDs

100 touches, 562 total yards, 3 TDs

His check is too big for the above to occur....and for people to sit back and say he is playing awesome. Those guys don't have big checks nor are they featured RBs

Williams has been demoted every season Stewart has been able to step on the field (in playing time in 11 and officially in name in 12).....so no, the coaches don't agree with you.

[Razeyfingers]

More of everything....I just told you. Need to be more a more diverse RB and make more plays

102 touches, 488 total yards, 0 TDs

vs

98 touches - 637 total yards, 3 TDs

96 touches, 510 total yards, 4 TDs

100 touches, 562 total yards, 3 TDs

His check is too big for the above to occur....and for people to sit back and say he is playing awesome. Those guys don't have big checks nor are they featured RBs

Williams has been demoted every season Stewart has been able to step on the field (in playing time in 11 and officially in name in 12).....so no, the coaches don't agree with you.

 

I guess we'll never see eye to eye because we dont value the same way. Do more of what, CRA? Show me a play where he needs to do more of something .. . otherwise everything you wrote is nonsense to me.

 

This is completely preposterous, lol, you cant just go "he needs to do more!!!" .. Obama needs to do more, CRA! MORE!

[CRA]

I guess we'll never see eye to eye because we dont value the same way. Do more of what, CRA? Show me a play where he needs to do more of something .. . otherwise everything you wrote is nonsense to me.

 

This is completely preposterous, lol, you cant just go "he needs to do more!!!" .. Obama needs to do more, CRA! MORE!

again....

 

what is wrong with the following.

 

102 touches, 488 total yards, 0 TDs

vs

98 touches - 637 total yards, 3 TDs

96 touches, 510 total yards, 4 TDs

100 touches, 562 total yards, 3 TDs

 

One is a top 10 cap hit RB.   The others aren't.  You happy with that production for the money?  Williams even with Stewart hurt isn't earning his check.  Paid to be great.

 

Williams is an expensive....yet merely just a good RB.  He is what he is.  Not sure why you can't except that.   I'll pull out my word I had for James Anderson everyone got so upset about until they admitted I was right.  He is JAG at this point.  Like I said, JAGs are needed.....Williams' work IS needed.  But JAGs should be paid accordingly, otherwise you are hurting your team overpaying them

 

 

[MichaelNewtonII]

Cam isnt going anywhere

[Razeyfingers]

again....

 

Williams is an expensive....yet merely just a good RB.  He is what he is.  Not sure why you can't except that.   I'll pull out my word I had for James Anderson everyone got so upset about until they admitted I was right.  He is JAG at this point.  Like I said, JAGs are needed.....Williams' work IS needed.  But JAGs should be paid accordingly, otherwise you are hurting your team overpaying them

 

 

 

how many times will you repeat yourself without substance. He needs to do more of what? Show me where he needs to do more with the ball. Give me an examples of where he had a ball on a play and he needed to do more. What types of plays are his weaknesses? If you cant tell me then why are you talking about it? Stats only work when you are backing them up with examples. Otherwise its meaningless because youre not explaining the system.

 

. . What is it Im not accepting? I havent said poo, lol. I said he was downplayed in a reference to him being average. Which he is not.. . . which is the point of what Im saying to you. In our system he cant do much more. He is doing everything he can and doing WELL. Is being paid a lot? yes, lol, what difference does that make? He is doing what is asked of him very well and that is "exceeding". . not average. You dont take another system and plug our RB in there and then go. . "well by Miami's numbers, he's average"

 

Great job on identifying 50 as a jag. That was another example of a guy doing more than was expected of him in our system. . which we all said a million times in your threads. You still dont get the point of that whole "system" argument.

[CRA]

how many times will you repeat yourself without substance. He needs to do more of what? Show me where he needs to do more with the ball. Give me an examples of where he had a ball on a play and he needed to do more. What types of plays are his weaknesses? If you cant tell me then why are you talking about it? Stats only work when you are backing them up with examples. Otherwise its meaningless because youre not explaining the system.

 

. . What is it Im not accepting? I havent said poo, lol. I said he was downplayed in a reference to him being average. Which he is not.. . . which is the point of what Im saying to you. In our system he cant do much more. He is doing everything he can and doing WELL. Is being paid a lot? yes, lol, what difference does that make? He is doing what is asked of him very well and that is "exceeding". . not average. You dont take another system and plug our RB in there and then go. . "well by Miami's numbers, he's average"

t.

Why is our system holding him back......versus some of those other guys I just listed out producing him?  I mean, he is better than them right?  Let's start there first.

 

There are 200 threads addressing his strengths and weaknesses....I'd prefer to start with the above since that is actually a little different angle.

[Razeyfingers]

Why is our system holding him back......versus some of those other guys I just listed out producing him?  I mean, he is better than them right?  Let's start there first.

 

There are 200 threads addressing his strengths and weaknesses....I'd prefer to start with the above since that is actually a little different angle.

 

NOW, youre asking the right questions. Good now we can talk.

 

Well I think our system is based on deep threats and spreading the ball around. I think many of our passing plays are creative. . or can be, but our running plays are pretty vanilla arent they? Maybe they should be for the sake of timing but something tells me that we're not "setting up" the defense with those plays correctly. Like show an I form and then streak Ginn and Smitty, have they done that? I mean when we line up to run, to me, it looks like we're gonna run. It doesnt look disguised to me

 

[CRA]

NOW, youre asking the right questions. Good now we can talk.

Well I think our system is based on deep threats and spreading the ball around. I think many of our passing plays are creative. . or can be, but our running plays are pretty vanilla arent they? Maybe they should be for the sake of timing but something tells me that we're not "setting up" the defense with those plays correctly. Like show an I form and then streak Ginn and Smitty, have they done that? I mean when we line up to run, to me, it looks like we're gonna run. It doesnt look disguised to me

Well a top 10 cap hit RB IMO should be the kind you line up and run.....and they still create plays on their own. I don't see how we are limiting him in production.

Pretty obvious when Lynch is gonna run. His OL isn't great this year either. So they are limiting him?

 

As a top 10 cap RB....who is limited between the tackles and short yardage....Williams need to be better and more explosive between the 20s IMO to be worth his cost.  At 30, he isn't that.

 

It is all the FO sets up if someone is a good or bad value.  Our team is what it is,  Williams is what he is....he doesn't live up to his cost.  I have said numerous times that really is the FO's fault.  They gave him the deal.  But he doesn't live up to his cost here.  Cheaper RBs can do his role.  Big picture....you want to pay for what you get

[Razeyfingers]

Well a top 10 cap hit RB IMO should be the kind you line up and run.....and they still create plays on their own. I don't see how we are limiting him in production.

Pretty obvious when Lynch is gonna run. His OL isn't great this year either. So they are limiting him?

 

Contract was made before the offense wasnt it? I dont see how we can do more to give him production. You want to give him Tolbert's carries in the endzone? or you want Cam to pass less and take less deep shots? hand the ball off more often?

 

 

again you cannot say:

 

As a top 10 cap RB....who is limited between the tackles and short yardage....Williams need to be better and more explosive between the 20s IMO to be worth his cost.

 

Youre regressing again. The system is what it is. he is doing well with his opportunities.