Cam haters please check in here!

[MadHatter]

poor Cam haters, so persecuted. I mean it''s not just Cam they think is just like Vince Young, they also think we should trade Kuechly or get rid of CJ. They just hate all of our big name players equally, they just forget to create threads calling the others out.

very very few of us think Cam is exempt from criticism. what I think is that a lot of the criticism he receives is ridiculous or narrow in focus such that it ignores the realities of this team and places an inordinate amount of responsibility on his shoulders.

I don't blame Cam for any of the losses. But, his play in those losses did contribute the the loss.

[mav1234]

I don't blame Cam for any of the losses. But, his play in those losses did contribute the the loss.

 

That is fine, and that is fair.  Every player and every coach contributed to each of our losses... though I don't think the amount of blame should be or is the same across all of those individuals. 

 

I don't know that you are what I would call a cam hater, anyway, you just are skeptical, which is fine.  there's nothing wrong with that, though I'll still argue with you at times and I think we are both welcome to different opinions.  I don't recall you being one of the people starting the "GENO SMITH >>> CAM NEWTON" or "trade cam for eli lol" threads.  I am just a bit sick of the way a small minority of our fan base seems capable of ignoring all the good things Cam has done to such an extreme.  And yes, I know there are plenty of people that ignore his deficiencies just as vehemently... and I've argued with some of them in the past, so meh.

[MHS831]

With every post you are slowly becoming more and more unhinged about the subject of him.

Are you trying to convince yourself of all this, or us?

 

Your problem--well, one of them--is you are more focused on me than facts.  Celebrate mediocrity if you want to, but 7-9 is not getting it done for me.  2013, your small sample size, is looking worse than last year--your own words.   QB ratings are pretty accurate measures of success.   So, instead of facts to support your position, you focus on the messenger of truth. 

 

[MHS831]

 

so since MHS didn't want to look it up, Tom Brady is the QB I referred to that has a terrible "4th quarter when within 7" rating, yet look at the record of that team.  Now, Tom and Cam are not anywhere near the same league at all - I'm not saying they are - I'm just illustrating that even AMAZING QBs can have weird stats with small sample sizes, so why be surprised when a young QB does?  I mean last year he had a good set in that area, so why think he's regressed based on 10 attempts?

 

 

 

So please explain to me what makes these two similar.

 

Because Vince Young has as many passing yards in his career so far as Cam has in his first three years.  Cam has more passing touchdowns, more rushing touchdowns, etc, in his first three years.  Cam has broken passing records.  Vince Young was never a good passer - Cam very clearly is.  Other than labeling them both "a project", what exactly makes Cam like Vince Young?

 

 

 

 

LOL blown fourth quarter leads have to do with the defense, ffs.  Listen to yourself, man.  When the defense gives up a basically game ending score, sure you can blame Cam for not doing whatever, or you could blame coaching or the defense.  You should also probably look at the entire body of work throughout the game, rather than beign so reactionary.  I was initially pissed at cam's game vs Seattle, but I actually went back and looked at how he played and he took what the defense gave him, he didn't force it, and he played smart.  That is all you can ask for.  I don't think we were aggressive enough overall but that is not necessarily his fault - and based on how we "adjusted" the next week I would say it was a playcalling "issue."

 

 

 

Do you realize Cam had only 3 attempts that 4th quarter and only one was an incompletion?  He also ran the ball 2 times for 15 yards.  Cam's QB rating, if it did drop "50 points," it only did so because of the extreme small sample size.  If we look at his body of work, particularly last season in the 4th quarter, it is clear that it is our defense giving up leads, and that we rarely get a chance to see Cam make plays at the end of games for reasons outside of his play.

 

 

3 losses is not a small sample size if your team has only 16 games.  If your argument relies on last year, then you support the theory that Cam is regressing and that he is inconsistent.  Sorry, but there is nothing about Cam that suggests his only problem is other people.  There are too many traits that suggest otherwise.  you will see.

 

[TheRed]

Your entire existence is nothing more than to make excuses for Cam.

Go back in your meds....the voices in your head are not your friends.

You're 0 for 2 MadHatter, will you be presenting any factual information this evening?

[TheRed]

Your problem--well, one of them--is you are more focused on me than facts. Celebrate mediocrity if you want to, but 7-9 is not getting it done for me. 2013, your small sample size, is looking worse than last year--your own words. QB ratings are pretty accurate measures of success. So, instead of facts to support your position, you focus on the messenger of truth.

One individual does not equal an entire team. Our win/loss record is a reflection on all the players, including our coaches.

[IGSaint]

One individual does not equal an entire team. Our win/loss record is a reflection on all the players, including our coaches.

 

People continue to spout win/loss records for qbs as if it's personal stats. it's mindboggling...

[MHS831]

Vince Young was 26-22 

 

What is this new team called Vince Young? never heard of it

 

You are so right. The team--not the qb--is responsible for winning or losing.  That is probably why they all make the same money. 

[MHS831]

One individual does not equal an entire team. Our win/loss record is a reflection on all the players, including our coaches.

 No other player in any sport has more control over his team's success than the NFL QB..  Rarely does a team succeed without a good QB.  With our defense, we should not be 2-3 with the teams we have played.  The #1 defense in the league (scoring) and we can't muster enough to win because our QB folds up in the fourth quarter (2013).  Elite?  Not remotely.

[mav1234]

3 losses is not a small sample size if your team has only 16 games.  If your argument relies on last year, then you support the theory that Cam is regressing and that he is inconsistent.  Sorry, but there is nothing about Cam that suggests his only problem is other people.  There are too many traits that suggest otherwise.  you will see.

 

 

dude your argument is that 10 attempts show that Cam is regressing, then... That's, uh, special.

[teeray]

Alex Smith is as good as Peyton Manning this year and better than Brees, Brady, and Rodgers.

He is 6-0. Facts are facts.

[TheRumGone]

your logic is not sound MHS sorry buddy

[teeray]

Contextualizing or putting things in perspective =/= Cam shares no blame.

Hard for some of the more dense people to understand that saying Cam not being the problem does not mean Cam is perfect or without fault.

But I do think that some people have an unrealistic expectation as to what Cam should be expected to do at this stage of his career.

[footballisasport]

Why can't I hear things like, "Cam and his receivers" the way I keep hearing with Luck? Where is this young man's team? Why is everything about what he is or isn't doing right. Instead of what can this team do to help him make them winners. Analyzing and obsessively scrutinizing Cam and using it to convince oneself that he is or isn't "elite" doesn't help this team. I would love to see highlights of this team and the discussions be about the team as a whole and how it can become better, not just two seconds of Cam. 

 

It does seem some Panthers fans  want Cam to do so much to help this team, regardless of its flaws but by the same token, they intentional want to weaken his image as QB, which I find counter productive. If you want him to be an "elite QB" then give him the space to grow and the weapons. If you simply want him to just help a bunch of misfits get to the SB and win, and don't give a fug about him, then continue what you're doing.  

 

At last check, even Peyton needs good weapons around him, on both sides of the ball, to help him make the team a winner. And, he's considered at the top of the "elite" QBs.