The Problem with "Rudys"

[panthers55]

Going by your definitions, let me frame it this way:

 

When they are picked, they are underdogs.

 

If they pan out, then they are diamonds in the rough, but you can't call them that unless they actually prove to be so.

 

And yeah, by that classification, Silatolu was an underdog.  Could he also be a diamond in the rough?  Conceivably, but will he be better than Cordy Glenn (taken with the net pick by the Bills)?  If not, then it's still ultimately a mistake.

 

And to be clear, I'm not negating any of the people who are part of the process.  I'm evaluating how Rivera does his part of the whole thing.

 

My verdict: He's not very good at it.

I don't see a second rounder as an underdog at all.  You can't do that.  You need an impact guy which honeslty Silatolu was becoming this season before he got hurt.  I think he was a guy they were very high on who is going to be a good player for us.  he just needed development and we didn't give him time last year before throwing him in.

 

Was he a better choice than other guys or was he a good choice at that position?  Neither of us are scouts so we will have to see over time.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't see a second rounder as an underdog at all.  You can't do that.  You need an impact guy which honeslty Silatolu was becoming this season before he got hurt.  I think he was a guy they were very high on who is going to be a good player for us.  he just needed development and we didn't give him time last year before throwing him in.

 

Was he a better choice than other guys or was he a good choice at that position?  Neither of us are scouts so we will have to see over time.

 

I'm honestly not down on Silatolu.  But at the time, i wouldn't have taken him over Cordy Glenn. 

 

Who proves better over time?  Guess we'll find out.

 

Like I said, first draft under a new coach will tell us a lot.  Good chance that happens next year.

 

We'll see.

 

 

[thefuzz]

I'm honestly not down on Silatolu.  But at the time, i wouldn't have taken him over Cordy Glenn. 

 

Who proves better over time?  Guess we'll find out.

 

Like I said, first draft under a new coach will tell us a lot.  Good chance that happens next year.

 

We'll see.

 

Smart money was on Glenn....we took a risk with a higher upside.

 

IMO, the Panthers are not in a position to groom talent, and let high draft picks marinate and learn the game...we just aren't deep enough (RB and LB is an exception) across the board to go with fingers crossed/hope they make it picks.

 

Go with the sure thing and plug and play now.

[Mr. Scot]

IMO, the Panthers are not in a position to groom talent, and let high draft picks marinate and learn the game...we just aren't deep enough (RB and LB is an exception) across the board to go with fingers crossed/hope they make it picks.

 

Go with the sure thing and plug and play now.

 

I'd agree.

 

And I think there's a good chance you'll see that reflected in the next draft.

 

[thefuzz]

I'd agree.

 

And I think there's a good chance you'll see that reflected in the next draft.

 

 

 

Certainly hope so.  I'm not asking to ignore long term talent, but we don't have quality starters, and D2 schools just don't produce enough talent to be taking the risks.

 

If we were a program that was in the playoffs pretty much every year...then go for it, but there are only a couple of those in the NFL.

[panthers55]

Smart money was on Glenn....we took a risk with a higher upside.

 

IMO, the Panthers are not in a position to groom talent, and let high draft picks marinate and learn the game...we just aren't deep enough (RB and LB is an exception) across the board to go with fingers crossed/hope they make it picks.

 

Go with the sure thing and plug and play now.

I would like to see what they would do if they could go back to April.  With Kugbila and Silatolu both gone for the year, the old plug and play vet is looking good.  Frankly if there are any vets out there who would be an instant upgrade and had for the vet minimum, I would be bringing them in on Tuesday.  Unless we are writing off this year already, we need some help on the line.  I don't know about Gettleman but I guarantee Rivera wants to pull the trigger now.

[thefuzz]

I would like to see what they would do if they could go back to April.  With Kugbila and Silatolu both gone for the year, the old plug and play vet is looking good.  Frankly if there are any vets out there who would be an instant upgrade and had for the vet minimum, I would be bringing them in on Tuesday.  Unless we are writing off this year already, we need some help on the line.  I don't know about Gettleman but I guarantee Rivera wants to pull the trigger now.

 

 

You and I have talked about this before, I don't think that DG was all in on this season, and he is trying to roll some of this saved cap space over to next year so he can continue to clean up Hurney's ass explosion.

 

In the NFC this year it's possible that we could make the wild card, but very highly unlikely.

 

This is all about 14.

[rko396]

Said elsewhere that I think one of Rivera's biggest failings as a coach is his talent evaluation and depth chart building.

Here's a little something within that same vein.

Fans love "underdog" players, guys who overcome limitations to become great at their position. They're the "Rudys", the ones nobody thinks can be good enough, yet somehow they manage by hard work or sheer force of will to mold themselves into great players who make their teams better.

Two guys like that are beloved by all Panther fans, namely Steve Smith and the late Sam Mills. Neither came into the league with expectations they'd be world beaters, but both proved better than anyone imagined they could be.

Those stories are always fantastic...

...but the reality is they're also fairly rare.

More often than not, "effort" guys make their way onto practice squads and maybe lower tiers of depth charts, but the reality is that ultimately they're just not good enough to be starters or impact players. You love their heart and their drive - and sometimes you wish your more talented players had even half as much of those qualities - but in most cases, the fairy tale ending you'd absolutely love to see just doesn't happen.

Unfortunately, I think head coach Ron Rivera has a real soft spot for the "Rudy" type players.

And sadly, I think it's clouded his judgment when it comes to some positions on this team.

I love the effort that Byron Bell gives every Sunday, but let's be real. He just isn't an NFL starter. And kudos to Sione Fua for giving it his all, but his all isn't enough. He shouldn't even be on an NFL roster, but thanks to the injury hampering Dwan Edwards right now, here he is.

And then there's Captain Munnerlyn, I absolutely love Captain and would be happy to have him as a nickel back, but he shouldn't be a starting corner. Rivera once called him a "Sam Mills" in the secondary. When I heard that, I winced. That statement, while a great compliment, is sadly some of the best evidence that the theory I'm putting forth here is true.

No doubt there are other names I could add to this (Armond Smith comes to mind) but the bottom line is that Rivera has allowed his coaching decisions to be affected by sentiment for players who try really hard, but just don't have the talent. In a vacuum, it'd probably be an admirable quality to want to reward the guys who try the hardest to make themselves, and the team, better.

But Rivera doesn't coach in a vacuum. He coaches in the NFL, the most competitive football league in existence. And in the NFL, you win or you go home.

Thanks to his sentiment, Rivera will probably be doing the latter come January.

Great post. Good read, and I completely understand what you're implying. But just to be clear:

You do realize Rudy is fake right? Never happened.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Yea....Rivera is a shitty coach....we know this man.

 

Evaluate Talent? nope (see Fua)

Game Plan Well? nope

Adjustments? nope

Calls stupid timeouts? yup

Discipline? nope (hey another flag)

 

I honestly don't think the players really respect him or his disabilities.

FIFY

[CardiacCats]

brandon williams.... trying so hard to find us a jimmy graham.  only the best of the best find talent like that

[Marguide]

brandon williams.... trying so hard to find us a jimmy graham.  only the best of the best find talent like that

 

Most on here hate Jimmy Graham, and rightfully so. After all, he's a Saint.

 

But just imagine the kind of numbers a tight end like that could put up with Cam. Those are the kind of weapons we lack...

 

And please don't try to convince me that Olsen is as good as Graham. Don't even go there.

[CardiacCats]

Most on here hate Jimmy Graham, and rightfully so. After all, he's a Saint.

But just imagine the kind of numbers a tight end like that could put up with Cam. Those are the kind of weapons we lack...

And please don't try to convince me that Olsen is as good as Graham. Don't even go there.

olsen is good but graham is on pace to have one of the best receiving seasons of any player ever. He's elite, only receiver I'd rather have than Graham is megatron

[Mr. Scot]

Great post. Good read, and I completely understand what you're implying. But just to be clear:

You do realize Rudy is fake right? Never happened.

 

I'm using the character as a metaphor.

 

I know the facts of the real story are, shall we say, disputed.

 

And for the guys discussing Jimmy Graham, remember who was drafted six picks ahead of him?

 

(if you don't, save yourself some aggravation; don't look it up) :(

[MrFo]

Maybe there are just exactly enough "Rudy's?"