The Problem with "Rudys"

[Razeyfingers]

I mean, I think there was a lot of drama in the draft room. Looked like to me Gettles did a lot of "Fine, you want em, thats your grave"

[Mr. Scot]

Just for the heck of it, lemme frame it another way...

 

In the movie "Rudy", Rudy Ruettiger spends four years busting his ass at Notre Dame despite being too small and not having the talent to play football at that level.  He is rewarded by being allowed to play the last few snaps of his final game, wherein he records a sack.  He returns home in glory and becomes an inspiration to underdogs everywhere.

 

(not gonna get in to the veracity of the story; that's a separate discussion)

 

Now suppose that in the movie, instead of Ara Parseghian - and later Dan Devine - the University of Notre Dame football team is coached by Ron Rivera. 

 

The story changes thusly:

 

Seeing how much effort Ruettiger gives on every single snap in practice, Rivera names him the starting defensive end,  In the games that fo9llow, Ruettiger is routinely run over and Notre Dame loses by double digits on a regular basis.  However, instead of benching Ruettiger, Rivera defends him by talking about how much effort he gives and stating that he graded out well using the team's evaluation system.  Ruettiger winds up a laughingstock, eventually sustains a serious injury that knocks him out of the game for good and returns to his hometown in shame.

 

That movie sucks, doesn't it? :unsure:

 

So do the real life story endings when you give a guy something that he may have worked really really hard for but didn't truly earn.

 

It's great to reward the guys who always give it their best, but only if they've really earned it.  Steve Smith is legitimately a number one receiver.  Byron Bell, however, is not a starter quality tackle.  Giving him that rold doesn't make for a happy ending.  In all honesty, it ruins it.

 

 

[Khaki Lackey]

I mean, I think there was a lot of drama in the draft room. Looked like to me Gettles did a lot of "Fine, you want em, thats your grave"

On what picks, do you think? I do remember Gettleman saying in an interview post draft that there were players that he wanted that didn't fit the coaches scheme, so he didn't draft them. I wonder if it was, like you said, a "you make your bed, now lie in it" kind of things. (Obviously they agreed on the first pick, I'm willing to bet Gettleman picked the second)

[rodeo]

Do you think this has anything to do with Rivera being a back-up LB for 4 seasons who wasn't the most athletically gifted but eventually cracked the starting line up through hard work...

[Mr. Scot]

Do you think this has anything to do with Rivera being a back-up LB for 4 seasons who wasn't the most athletically gifted but eventually cracked the starting line up through hard work...

 

Hadn't thought about it.

 

Makes sense though, doesn't it?

 

[panthers55]

I said in the post it wasn't meant to be a 'real life' comparison between Horton and Peppers.

 

As to Bell, whether he began as a starter, he came into this year as one.  And to be clear, it's the head coach and his stafg that determine the depth chart, not the GM.

 

So why hasn't Gettleman gone out and got someone better?  I'd say it's his 'collaborative approach'.

 

Gettleman has said numerous times that the draft and free agency were a collective effort.  how's that work?  he says "Ron, where are you good and what do you need?"  Rivera tells him, and he goes with it (hence, why more effort gets paid to defense than offense).

 

Unfortunately, Rivera isn't a good judge.  And I'd say it's a pretty solid guess that Gettleman has probably figured that out at this point.

 

Truthfully, I think a 'team effort' between GM and coach is a good idea, as long as both parties know what they're doing.

 

When one of them doesn't... :unsure:

[markbm62]

Do you think this has anything to do with Rivera being a back-up LB for 4 seasons who wasn't the most athletically gifted but eventually cracked the starting line up through hard work...

I think you just nailed it, this explains Riveras problem to me. The man has all the tools to be a very good coach but it seemed that something always heled him back.

[panthers55]

For some strange reason  when I try replying to the post, I can't get underneath it to write.  It keeps extending the quote.

But to answer your post Mr Scot, I am not clear that Rivera was the determining factor.  Sure Gettleman said it was collaborative but of course he would say that.  He also said that he was the ultimate decision-maker and that he would listen to input but the decision was ultimately his.

 

Look I understand the need to paint all of this on Rivera.  he is likely gone after the season while Gettleman is staying. I also understand that we all need to think that the problem is with Rivera and that once he and Shula are gone, things will turn around. Trust me I am not a big fan at this point of Rivera but this is not all on him.  Sure he supports and says good things about Bell.  What else could he do?  He has Bell whether he wants him or not.  

 

Gettleman prides himself on being a good film evaluator and knowing talent when he sees it.  He saw the same thing Rivera did watching coach's film of every player and every position.  He should have been in the best position to know what he saw and what he wanted.  He had no attachment to Bell or any other pick.  What he had was a 15 million cap problem to fix and didn't have the money for a fix at right tackle in the draft.  So he was left with the draft.  The D line was so awful that those 2 positions were the biggest necessity in his book.  And since he let Hangman go who could certainly be called a Rudy, he had virtually no one at Right guard so we went there.  After that there were no right tackles that were come in and be better than Bell so we brought in a few guys for depth and decided to do the best we could.  

Honestly I just don't see how you can say that bell was a Rudy when we got rid of a number of Rudys  in the offseason and during camp and only kept him because of the cap problems and needing to draft at positions of huge need whereas replacing Bell was considered a need.  Maybe they both were wrong but honestly the psychology of the whole thing suggests it is gettleman pulling the strings not Rivera.

[panthers55]

On what picks, do you think? I do remember Gettleman saying in an interview post draft that there were players that he wanted that didn't fit the coaches scheme, so he didn't draft them. I wonder if it was, like you said, a "you make your bed, now lie in it" kind of things. (Obviously they agreed on the first pick, I'm willing to bet Gettleman picked the second)

That is the not the same as we are only drafting what Rivera wants.  He wants to draft guys at right tackle for example who are big road graders who can block the run without being too porous in pass blocking like he did at guard with Kugbila.  Rivera was already on the hot seat and if,as we all suspect he was on a very short leash, why in the world would he let Rivera make all the decisions which would ultimately make him look bad if they don't work out.  Gettleman was brought in to straighten things out and because he was an evaluator of talent which Hurney was not.  So to think that he would risk his future in letting a coach on a short leash tell him who to draft is ridiculous.  He comes across as an in charge guy who is making the decisions on what is his dream job.  He isn't going to let anything screw it up. Particularly,not a guy he didn't hire and was supposedly stuck with.  C'mon now, that makes no sense at all.  The only reason we need to go there and put it all on Rivera is because he is likely gone and Gettleman is staying so we can't be thinking it was his screw-up  or it ruins the quaint picture that getting rid of Shula and Rivera will fix everything.........

 

Unless you subscribe to the conspiracy theory that he knew it and didn't care or figured this if we suck, then Rivera is gone anyway and he gets to bring in his own guy and still has McDermott and a very good defense to build on next year. I don't really. I just think he did the best he could and fixed what he thought was best looking to not just this year but the future as well.   

[Marguide]

I generally agree with Scott. Rivera values high effort guys, sometimes to his detriment. 

 

But it's not just the underachievers. Last preseason, Luke played excellent at MLB. Regular season rolls around and we had to watch too many weeks of Beason trying his best but just not getting the job done. I often wonder how long Luke would have stayed on the outside if Beason hadn't gone on IR.

 

And as Scott pointed out, Captain is another great example. He is very good close to the line of scrimmage, but put him outside and he's going to get abused.

 

Of course the ultimate high-effort guy without a lot of talent (sorry App St fans) was Armanti. Every roster spot is valuable in the NFL, and he held one too long.

 

I don't think this tendency is Ron's greatest problem, but I agree it is a problem.

[SIGCHI222]

What about "Gingers"?

[Marguide]

 I just think he did the best he could and fixed what he thought was best looking to not just this year but the future as well.   

 

I certainly understand your position and in general agree. However, I look at a guy like Eric Winston who signed a cheap deal (1.25 million, 1 year) and has been an above average tackle, and know he could have helped us.

 

It just seems Gettleman could have done more (and done it on the cheap) to help out our o-line. He chose to roll the dice with what we had. Unless it was at the insistence of Rivera, I think DG is open to criticism on the o-line issue.

[panthers55]

I certainly understand your position and in general agree. However, I look at a guy like Eric Winston who signed a cheap deal (1.25 million, 1 year) and has been an above average tackle, and know he could have helped us.

 

It just seems Gettleman could have done more (and done it on the cheap) to help out our o-line. He chose to roll the dice with what we had. Unless it was at the insistence of Rivera, I think DG is open to criticism on the o-line issue.

Winston is going on 30 and would be another stop gap.  If Gettleman had been looking at this year only he might have pulled the string.  But if he is looking at the long term, then developing the young guys and saving cap room is more important than picking up another long in the tooth veteran.  We already had that at left tackle.

[carolina-chuck]

Hadn't thought about it.

 

Makes sense though, doesn't it?

 

 

No, it doesnt make sense. SMH