The Cam Newton thread to end all threads.

[Achilles]

If he is improving personally and as a teammate, it hasn't translated to the field of play.  Or at least not fully.  Cam has a losing record to go along with his world records.  As much as I doubt RR's ability to lead an entire football team for a full 16 weeks, I doubt Cam's ability to the "that guy" in the 4th quarter of games.  Granted, his coaches and teammates need to get him the opportunities.  But,  Cam's legacy as an athletic phenom is secondary to his record as a starter.  I don't disagree that this coaching staff (Shula included) has let Cam down.  Many of the mental mistakes that take place on the field are not Cam's fault in any way.  But the negative opinions of Cam are not completely unfounded.  I believe he is a good person and a very good QB.

 

Fact is, he's got nobody to blame but himself if he's not experiencing success.  It worries me that sometimes it seems like when Cam looks in the mirror all he sees is a well dressed man.

[wine-o and cheese-doodle]

0-3 coming up. BUT it's not his fault. He has the great smile. He tries hard. Looks great in his threads. However his OL is crap and he has no receivers or coaches.

[MHS831]

Certainly RR is out and Shula will catch a ride with him. I understand the theory but the reality is Cam is not Josh Freeman. O-line help would certainly help him. Our coaching sucks. At the end of the day JR loves cam, so he's here for a while unless he goes Jake within the next 6 years.

 

I agree, and Gettlemen needs to put the weapons and protection on the field if he really wants to see what he has at QB--we both think Cam can be great-he needs the support and conditions.

 

I suppose that I find it odd that Gettlemen would think Cam is a franchise QB and then go into the season with Bell at RT, Williams at RG, and an inconsistent Silatolu at LG.  First rounder-defense; second rounder: defense; Free agents-- Blackburn, Dwan, Captain, Florence, Moore, Mitchell, Cole, etc.  He gave the offense Kugbila in the fourth and added a WR with an injury history and a KR with suspect hands to the offense.  Later, Scott fell into his lap and he reluctantly signed Wharton when we had injuries, but that is it.  He is building the defense, maintaining the 25th ranked offense.   The only reason I can possibly think of for his doing that is he realizes that Rivera is probably gone and a new coach with a new system will want to design the offense.

 

Add the "pocket passer" comment and Gettlemen's background, and the fact that he chose not to protect Cam this year as I or you would have, it makes you wonder, especially in the midst of a slow start that seems eerily familiar.

 

It is not a popular thought, but to me, the signs are there that this is what he is doing.  I personally think Gettlemen is behind the "Keep Cam in the pocket" concept.   I think Cam is auditioning.  If he does not step up, I expect no loyalty to him next season.  In fact, I would guess that Gettlemen would take a first and second rounder for Cam--if he does not become a pocket passer.  This is all speculation, but Gettlemen is not a tricky man.   Odds are, Cam stays.  But....

 

[stirs]

so is this the last Cam thread ever?

 

Till about 1.40 this afternoon

 

[cbully]

I agree, and Gettlemen needs to put the weapons and protection on the field if he really wants to see what he has at QB--we both think Cam can be great-he needs the support and conditions.

 

I suppose that I find it odd that Gettlemen would think Cam is a franchise QB and then go into the season with Bell at RT, Williams at RG, and an inconsistent Silatolu at LG.  First rounder-defense; second rounder: defense; Free agents-- Blackburn, Dwan, Captain, Florence, Moore, Mitchell, Cole, etc.  He gave the offense Kugbila in the fourth and added a WR with an injury history and a KR with suspect hands to the offense.  Later, Scott fell into his lap and he reluctantly signed Wharton when we had injuries, but that is it.  He is building the defense, maintaining the 25th ranked offense.   The only reason I can possibly think of for his doing that is he realizes that Rivera is probably gone and a new coach with a new system will want to design the offense.

 

Add the "pocket passer" comment and Gettlemen's background, and the fact that he chose not to protect Cam this year as I or you would have, it makes you wonder, especially in the midst of a slow start that seems eerily familiar.

 

It is not a popular thought, but to me, the signs are there that this is what he is doing.  I personally think Gettlemen is behind the "Keep Cam in the pocket" concept.   I think Cam is auditioning.  If he does not step up, I expect no loyalty to him next season.  In fact, I would guess that Gettlemen would take a first and second rounder for Cam--if he does not become a pocket passer.  This is all speculation, but Gettlemen is not a tricky man.   Odds are, Cam stays.  But....

 

it seems like DG has set RR up by letting RR set himself up. I think we find out who Cam is after RR and the funky  bunch are gone.

[MHS831]

it seems like DG has set RR up by letting RR set himself up. I think we find out who Cam is after RR and the funky  bunch are gone.

 

Interesting way to put it, and it could be on point.

 

I go back to the comment about "pocket passers" Gettlemen made.

I also go back to the 7-second pause after being asked if Cam was his franchise QB.

I look at what he did to assure Cam's success

 

Is he setting Cam up too?  Some think, by expecting Cam to be successful with this offensive talent, he is not being realistic.  Cam has no shot.  I agree with that assessment.  But there is the issue of the offseason and the contract extension.  If Cam never comes around, is 2014 his audition year?  Then, if we do not win, Cam walks (unless we franchise him at $20 million).  Interesting dynamics.  I have to think Gettlemen is already thinking about 2014, because that is when he will have his people in place.

 

[TheRumGone]

Interesting way to put it, and it could be on point.

 

I go back to the comment about "pocket passers" Gettlemen made.

I also go back to the 7-second pause after being asked if Cam was his franchise QB.

I look at what he did to assure Cam's success

 

Is he setting Cam up too?  Some think, by expecting Cam to be successful with this offensive talent, he is not being realistic.  Cam has no shot.  I agree with that assessment.  But there is the issue of the offseason and the contract extension.  If Cam never comes around, is 2014 his audition year?  Then, if we do not win, Cam walks (unless we franchise him at $20 million).  Interesting dynamics.  I have to think Gettlemen is already thinking about 2014, because that is when he will have his people in place.

 

a couple things, and i know you are trying to look through the eyes of gettleman so i dont know if this is your opinion as well or you are just trying to see what he thinks.

 

1. the 7 second pause, think about how long a 7 second pause is. do you really think he paused 7 seconds or do you think joe person just exaggerated. Rayzor posted a great thread about that "interview" and Gettleman gushed on and on about how Cam is a "smart, hard working kid who has had "the greatest two seasons of a quarterback ever." He also said that when building a team you first need a franchise qb. Gettleman said, "we have one."

 

2. the pocket passer comment is kind of like a duh thing. All qbs need to be pocket passers to take their team to the next level.

 

3. i don't like that he didn't bring in an o-lineman but that was kind of the giants M.O. they believe in gelling. obviously that was a retarded move on his part. And i think he is thinking about the future which kind of pisses me off because this is a what have you done for me now kind of league. You only get 16 games a year of football.

 

I've talked to a couple giants fans this week and i'll tell you a couple things they have said.

 

1. they would kill to have Cam, flaws and all

 

2. they point to the coaching staff first and foremost. think we need an offensive minded coach for cam because our defense is beastly.

 

3. they think we have offensive talent with smitty, olsen ginn and our rbs. but also need to start helping Cam out, said they've never seen a franchise draft a franchise qb and not draft viable weapons.

 

I think a lot of people forget how many times Cam has put us in a position to win only for someone else to blow it (whether that is the coaching or specific players). For instance last week, the saints SHITTY defense sealed the game with a late interception in the endzone. It's not all on Cam, and Gettleman would be an idiot to think otherwise. Which goes against the kind of football guy i think he is.

[MHS831]

a couple things, and i know you are trying to look through the eyes of gettleman so i dont know if this is your opinion as well or you are just trying to see what he thinks.

 

1. the 7 second pause, think about how long a 7 second pause is. do you really think he paused 7 seconds or do you think joe person just exaggerated. Rayzor posted a great thread about that "interview" and Gettleman gushed on and on about how Cam is "smart, hard working kid who has had the greatest two seasons of a quarterback ever." He also said that when building a team you first need a franchise qb. Gettleman said, "we have one."

 

2. the pocket passer comment is kind of like a duh thing. All qbs need to be pocket passers to take their teams to the next level.

 

3. i don't like that he didn't bring in an o-lineman but that was kind of the giants M.O. they believe in geling. obviously that was a retarded move on his part. And i think he is thinking about the future which kind of pisses me off because this is a what have you done for me now kind of league. You only get 16 games a year of football.

 

I've talked to a couple giants fans this week and i'll tell you a couple things they have said.

 

1. they would kill to have Cam, flaws and all

 

2. they point to the coaching staff first and foremost. think we need an offensive minded coach for cam because our defense is beastly.

 

3. they think we have offensive talent with smitty, olsen ginn and our rbs. but also need to start helping Cam out, said they've never seen a franchise draft a franchise qb and not draft viable weapons.

 

I think a lot of people forget how many times Cam has put us in a position to win only for someone else to blow it (whether that is the coaching or specific players). For instance last week, the saints SHITTY defense sealed the game with a late interception in the endzone. It's not all on Cam, and Gettleman would be an idiot to think otherwise. Which goes against the kind of football guy i think he is.

Good stuff.  This is not my opinion, but it is a fear.  I am afraid that we will not use Cam correctly and Gettlemen willl find his kind of QB.  If I were a team without a QB, I would offer Gettlemen a first rounder and a second for Cam if he continues to struggle. The right coach and support will make a star out of him. 

 

About the pause--I think it was long, but probably due to his desire to choose his words carefully.  He was new to the press conference thing.  However,with every perception there are usually others.

Leave it up to Joe Person to make an issue of what was not said. 

 

[TheRumGone]

Good stuff.  This is not my opinion, but it is a fear.  I am afraid that we will not use Cam correctly and Gettlemen willl find his kind of QB.  If I were a team without a QB, I would offer Gettlemen a first rounder and a second for Cam if he continues to struggle. The right coach and support will make a star out of him. 

 

About the pause--I think it was long, but probably due to his desire to choose his words carefully.  He was new to the press conference thing.  However,with every perception there are usually others.

Leave it up to Joe Person to make an issue of what was not said. 

 

i just don't think Gettleman is that dumb to ditch a qb like Cam. It's hard enough as it is to draft a franchise qb, why take the risk when you have somebody as talented as Cam? doesn't really make much sense especially considering how highly i think of Gettlemans football iq. I don't listen to CRA's gibberish because he takes things out of context instead of watching or reading the interview or comments. He even said when he made those claims that he didnt read the whole thing. Gettleman loves Cam, im certain of it.

 

there are worries, i guess you could say. But this falls on Richardson imo. Rivera should have been fired if you brought in a new GM. that falls squarley on Richardson. I said a couple months back that i didn't think we were quite there yet. 2 to 3 more years, but i also thought we had pieces to compete now, still believe we do, but not with this coaching stuff handcuffing us at the most crucial of times.

[Wanderlai]

I agree they franchise did nothing to put weapons around Cam. They should have went after another legit veteran WR but didn't. Maybe its the terrible cap situation as legit veteran WR aren't cheap. I get the feeling Gettleman doesn't want Cam and is already planning the future without him. Didn't I read that the team was going to draft Wilson if he dropped far enough to them?

[Guest KingKam]

All those shenanigan about Cam does nothing for me. I just wanna see him operate behind a consistent and respectable offensive line and 2 WRs who can catch a football. That's all I know. Is that too much to ask? Dude is breaking records without neither.

[TheRumGone]

I agree they franchise did nothing to put weapons around Cam. They should have went after another legit veteran WR but didn't. Maybe its the terrible cap situation as legit veteran WR aren't cheap. I get the feeling Gettleman doesn't want Cam and is already planning the future without him. Didn't I read that the team was going to draft Wilson if he dropped far enough to them?

 

you don't pass on a prospect like wilson. you build him up and trade him for higher draft picks a la kirk cousins (well maybe not since rg3's knee problems).

 

but i think a lot has been made out of out of context quotes from certain posters on here and it has fueled the fire.

[Who Said What?]

I have repeatedly said that this is possibly Gettlemen's perspective--not my own.  SO when you call it my argument in a childish temper tantrum, I see that you seem prone to missing points.  Emotion fogs the brain.  Still, since you seem poised for a fight, here you go:

"Almost winning games--The stuff of Champions---"  Do you realize that over 70% of NFL games are decided by a TD or less?  The good, effective QBs find a way to win them--that is common sense.  I cannot believe you want to attack criticism of the QB with a statement about how he almost wins games.

 

Answer (truthfully) these questions:

 

1. Are Cam's mechanics sound?

2. Is he considered a strong leader?

3. Is he considered an accurate passer?

4.  Has he recently been criticized for holding onto the ball too long, missing open WRs, and locking onto Smitty?

 

ANSWER KEY:

 

No.  He throws off his back foot a lot.

No.  Ask Thomas Davis. Cam is getting better, but you are talking about the past.

No. He is not accurate by NFL standards.   He misses too many open people with unforced bad throws.

Yes. 

 

If you answered truthfully, then could it be possible that we won those games we didn't if a few yes answers were in the top three?  Is it possible the GM will look at the QB production that way?  Sure he will. 

 

Get mad if you want, but you have not seen Dave Gettlemen yet.  If Cam does not come around, I do not expect Gettlemen to care how many games he almost won.  I promise that.  I am a Panther fan and I want Cam to do well, but what I want or think does not matter.  You either.

 

Own up to what you said.  Once the post made under your name was picked apart, it suddenly became someone else's point of view.  Being a fan of football and former player, I know Cam has room to grow. 

 

1. He can read defenses, because he broke NFL records.  Akili Smith was the poster boy for a guy who could not read a defense.  Cam has rarely looked overwhelmed and has thrown less interceptions than many HOF and future HOF Qbs.

 

2.  Thomas Davis may think Cam has leadership issues, but you should ask Mike Tolbert or Steve Smith.

 

3. Like all quarterbacks, Cam's mechanics and accuracy get a hell of alot better when he has time. 

 

4. Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck had games last year where they were absolutely horrible and won a ton of games.  What I said was Cam's play has put us in position to win games and there were other elements of the "team" in a "team" sport that let us as fans down.  Case in point, he throws for 400yds against Arizona and loses because of special teams and bad pass defense.

 

You can call it childish or juvenile, but your post was your opinion and it had holes in it.  I am tired of Panther fans hating on our QB and using ESPN logic when evaluating his talent level and what our GM is going to do going forward.  Not every new GM cleans house and gets a new QB.  Many Panther fans should be angry if Gettleman gets rid of Cam because he is not the problem on this particular team.

 

[TheRumGone]

 

2.  Thomas Davis may think Cam has leadership issues, but you should ask Mike Tolbert or Steve Smith.

 

 

 

he did have leadership issues whether people wanted to admit it or not. Cam is a very shy person, when being the leader of a team you can't be. I've said in another thread that i have a friend whose brother played Cam in high school. Said he was a very wierd guy. not in a bad way (think steve mcnair).

 

what appears as aloof and prima donna to some is actually Cam being socially awkward. he has shown tremendous growth in that area. not everybody is a born leader, some have to learn and i think Cam is learning from the help of TD, smitty, gross and beason. He looks up to all those guys. this opinion is based on things i have heard from other people.