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Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Upper Deck West End Zone

By Upper Deck West End Zone,
in Carolina Panthers

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teeray Rookie

teeray

Posted
Posted

What contrary evidence....I have read every post in this thread.

Same old people making every excuse in the book for Cam's regression (or lack of prgression).....coaches fault....GM's fault....OL's fault....WR's fault....defense's fault.

Point is that Cam is not making basic reads that any 3rd year QB should make.

Even if I were to concede your point, what does that tell you about Cam that he has been the most prolific passer in NFL history over his first two seasons and yet can't make basic reads?

Because eventually just through experience he will improve on on his reads. He will anticipate better. He maybe the greatest QB ever.

Look I will just ask the "experts" this and the people agreeing with them feel free to give your opinion.

How does a QB that has wild accuracy issues and cannot make basic reads or basic throws and many experts have also said he doesn't have any weapons around him so since they are experts let's say he has no weapons.

Okay. So we have a QB with bad accuracy, can't make basic reads, can't make basic throws, and has no weapons (according to experts)

How does that guy break every passing record for the first to seasons of a career with less total passes than the other QBs that were close to that yardage? Someone explain that to me in a rational way and maybe I will be less forgiving to Cam.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
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We've done a not so great job overall of building around him on the offensive side of the ball. Especially on the OL.

2011:

4th Round - Kealoha Pilares (Wide Receiver) - IR, and likely gone.

6th Round - Zach Williams (Center) - Gone.

7th Round - Lee Ziemba (Tackle) - Gone.

2012:

2nd Round - Amini Silatolu (Guard) - Starter.

4th Round - Joe Adams (Wide Receiver/Returner) - Gone.

2013:

4th Round - Edmund Kugbila (Guard) - IR, out for the year.

6th Round - Kenjon Barner (Running Back) Injured, return unknown.

One starter drafted on the offensive side of the ball since we drafted Cam. That is a damn shame.

We traded for Olsen which was a great move obviously and combined with signing Shockey, paid dividends in Cam's rookie year. Problem is in 2012 we let Shockey walk, and replaced him with Ben Hartsock (so basically nobody).

We picked up Ginn as a return man, and Hixon who was supposed to come in and be the #3 but couldn't even get on the field all training camp/preseason and still can barely do so now. Lafell is failing to stand out so far too.

If this continues then our #2 receiver production wise looks to likely be Greg Olsen again this year.

But hey, keep telling us fairy tales about how much we are building around our franchise QB though P55.

What you and other apologists conveniently forget is that we drafted receivers in 2010.  Lafell, Gettis, and Edwards.  2 of which are on the squad this year and expected to contribute.  With Olsen and now picking up Ginn and Hixon we have brought in a number of receivers to help.  Sure it was years ago but Olsen and Ginn were both first rounders.  And Ginn is not purely a returner.  That 40 yard touchdown last week looked pretty legit to me.  That also includes a number 1 receiver in Smitty who has still not slowed down.

 

The only one telling fairy tales are all the apologists who keep trying to blame everyone except where the blame belongs.  All of it?  Of course not, but the notion we haven't built around Cam is plain ridiculous. The only reason we added more pieces lately to the defense was because it sucked worse than the offense not because there is some conspiracy around Cam.

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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What you and other apologists conveniently forget is that we drafted receivers in 2010. Lafell, Gettis, and Edwards. 2 of which are on the squad this year and expected to contribute. With Olsen and now picking up Ginn and Hixon we have brought in a number of receivers to help. Sure it was years ago but Olsen and Ginn were both first rounders. And Ginn is not purely a returner. That 40 yard touchdown last week looked pretty legit to me. That also includes a number 1 receiver in Smitty who has still not slowed down.

The only one telling fairy tales are all the apologists who keep trying to blame everyone except where the blame belongs. All of it? Of course not, but the notion we haven't built around Cam is plain ridiculous. The only reason we added more pieces lately to the defense was because it sucked worse than the offense not because there is some conspiracy around Cam.

Yes but experts have said that we haven't done enough to help him and that we don't have weapons on offense.

I mean, I agree with you but the experts say otherwise. Should I believe them or you?

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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And how much did Brees prove after 2 years, when he was bad enough to get the chargers the first overall pick, which they used on his replacement?

I am not the one making the comparisons others are.  I don't try and compare quarterbacks to make excuses one or the other I just comment when others bring it up first. I am fine with Cam being Cam. I just don't need to make excuses for him.  I will be in the stands with my Newton jersey this week whether he plays well or sucks. In the rain or shine..................

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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Yes but experts have said that we haven't done enough to help him and that we don't have weapons on offense.

I mean, I agree with you but the experts say otherwise. Should I believe them or you?

I don't think it is universal.  Bill Polian who was referenced in this thread thinks our receivers are better than most people think.  You are talking about the talking heads on ESPN and they are not experts.  C'mon would you classify Bradshaw  for example as an expert.

 

As far as believing some guys and not others, that is everyone's prerogative. That is why we discuss.

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The_Mango55 Newbie

The_Mango55

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Posted

I am not the one making the comparisons others are. I don't try and compare quarterbacks to make excuses one or the other I just comment when others bring it up first. I am fine with Cam being Cam. I just don't need to make excuses for him. I will be in the stands with my Newton jersey this week whether he plays well or sucks. In the rain or shine..................

If you are not comparing against other quarterbacks then what standard are you holding him against when you say how much he needs to improve?

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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Posted

Now I'm not trying to say Chud had Cam playing better, but Chud had Cam playing better

Chud jumped on Cam's back.... Let Cam simply be a playmaker. Often he put too much on him but he made him the focal point and let Cam be Cam.

Cam isn't Cam now. I think that all start from Gettlemen down. This is what DG wants

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Kurb Newbie

Kurb

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OK kids here is the deal.

 

Cam has flaws, this was known when we drafted him. He needed a ton of work. He needs playcalling tailored to his strengths. He is not Tom Brady or Manning. He needs to run an offense off of instinct with quick easy reads and he needs to make those decisions quickly. 

 

Earlier P55 said Cam's development or lack thereof is all on him.  This is not accurate, entirely. When you take a player that needs work you have to invest into that AND so does the player. Cam has been working, we would know about it if he hasn't. He visited Whitfield this offseason and his rookie season.   This is money out of Cam's pocket, not the Panthers.  What has the Panthers as an organization done to help Cam? Mike Shula and Ken Dorsey?  At some point you have to say, "Cam needs work, he needs to work himself and the Panthers need to invest work into him." I blame both parties. Yes Cam should be working to be as good as possible and YES the Panthers need to invest as much resources as it takes to help this young man reach the next level.

 

On the subject of adding offensive weapons around him.   
I can't for the life of me see how folks consider our current Offensive team design to be anything but a clusterfug. The O-Line is likely the worst one we have fielded in 10 years. The WR corps lacks play makers. We have Smith who is more #2 than #1 not. Yes it's true. and a bunch of #3 level WR's.  Hixon is continually hurt, Lafell is off to a very slow start, Ginn is a speedster who has promise but hasn't reached it, Armanti is afraid of contact.  Then we have 1/4th of our team cap space invested in Running backs. A 30 yr old DWill who has performed decently, a Stewart on the PUP, Tolbert who is banged up, and Barner who hasn't played.

 

So not only does Cam have his issues and need to continue to get better, the Panthers on the offensive side of the ball equate to being a complete and total trainwreck. 

 

Compare all this to what Indy has done for Luck. 1 very good vet in Reggie Wayne (SSmith) 1 promising 2nd year guy in TY Hilton (????) 2 young TE (olsen and ???) and now a young playmaker RB on a friendly rookie contract (Uhh DWILL/Stew for the net worth of an oil sheik) The Colts decided to dedicate their mission to making a young explosive offense around their franchise QB. They did so with dcent picks, trades and keeping relevant players.

The Panthers have done little of the sort and what attempts they have made have either been absolute failures or fuging stupid ideas to begin with (Tolbert is as a Sproles).

 

So yes Cam needs work, he needs to make his reads better, he needs to have solid mechanics, and he needs to show these improvements along with being the Leader he can be and HAS been in his career. That said, the PANTHERS need to get off their asses and support this young man. Spend some money on the best QB coach guy they can find. Bring in Offensive weapondry to make Cam's life easier, people to make plays for him instead of him having to make all the plays. Build a powerful offensive line with FAgency and smart draft picks. and on and on.

 

His numbers tell me, that when the Kid is rolling and the offense is called to his strengths Cam can make most any throw on the table and make an offense light up the scoreboard.  My eyes tell me the Panthers staff and FO have lost their fuging minds if they think the poo they run 80% of the time in Buffalo is some level of NFL offense.   

 

So stop bickering about who's to blame and realize they are ALL TO BLAME and until the entire Panthers Organization steps up, they will continue to be losers.

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