Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

[Marguide]

He is inconsistent.  Did I try and compare him to other quarterbacks and say he was better or worse.  That is your premise not mine. I don't really care if he is better that RGIII or Kaepernick or whoever.  I just care that he still struggles to make  basic throws and show good mechanics this far into his career.  Much like I never understood why basketball players can't make free throws after years of practice lining up in the same spot.  You would think it would be automatic.

 

And all I care about is winning.

 

My premise is this... if we put the right weapons around him, give him good coaching, and show continued patience, he can lead us to many winning seasons. The QB may be the most important player on the field, but he's not the only guy out there. Everything I've seen tells me Cam is good enough for us to win with.

 

Time will tell.

 

PS-Sometimes I wonder if he is being overcoached and suffers from the familiar "paralysis by analysis". Just a thought.

[panthers55]

Have you actually played sports? They're far from automatic. And Cam's not struggling with basic throws, you're just unrealistic in your assessment.

No I have played sports at the high school and collegiate level and have coached albeit at a much lower level (mostly recreational) for 20 years.  BTW I could have coached higher but don't like the politics and parents as the kids get older.  Funny but I like teaching younger players the fundamentals and basics.  Now that I have learned from the huddle that they won't learn them until they are adults or if ever, I guess I can stop trying, LOL.

As for basketball, I won't claim any great prowess but I figured that at least I would be good at free throws so I averaged hitting almost 85%.  So no I don't think I am unrealistic. It is the same shot from the same distance and never changes.  I think poor mechanics and a lack of repetition to what many players think is a boring task is why many players continue to suck even as pros. Particularly when a player is under pressure or he gets tired.

[Marguide]

I think bill polian (yes, THAT guy) put it best today when he said this.

 

If Polian is right, then think of what we have to look forward to once Cam has more experience. 

[panthers55]

And all I care about is winning.

 

My premise is this... if we put the right weapons around him, give him good coaching, and show continued patience, he can lead us to many winning seasons. The QB may be the most important player on the field, but he's not the only guy out there. Everything I've seen tells me Cam is good enough for us to win with.

 

Time will tell.

 

PS-Sometimes I wonder if he is being overcoached and suffers from the familiar "paralysis by analysis". Just a thought.

I hope you are right about leading us to many wins over the years.  My premise is simply that in order to not overthink he has to be able to do things automatically without thinking. That requires good muscle memory using good mechanics. Until he can do that automatically he will always be hot and cold and inconsistent particularly under pressure at crucial times.  Those things don't result in winning.

[panthers55]

I think bill polian (yes, THAT guy) put it best today when he said this.

C'mon now, Polian can't be right either.  FP just told us there are no basics and all the criticisms are just smoke and mirrors.  He isn't behind the curve and he doesn't have poor mechanics. We are all making this up just to be critical.  All he needs to do is relax and everything will be rosy and fine.

[IGSaint]

C'mon now, Polian can't be right either.  FP just told us there are no basics and all the criticisms are just smoke and mirrors.  He isn't behind the curve and he doesn't have poor mechanics. We are all making this up just to be critical.  All he needs to do is relax and everything will be rosy and fine.

 

That's some bad sarcasm. I don't think there is a single person in this thread who acts like everything is rosy. Cam just like all QB's in this league not named rodgers, brady have things they need to improve upon. Cam has what most consider the best first two seasons of a QB EVER. And that is with one year of major football experience. Cam is ahead of the curve as far as I'm concerned but as others have said you have to build around him on the offense just like any other QB and when has the front office did that in the past two seasons?

[panthers55]

That's some bad sarcasm. I don't think there is a single person in this thread who acts like everything is rosy. Cam just like all QB's in this league not named rodgers, brady have things they need to improve upon. Cam has what most consider the best first two seasons of a QB EVER. And that is with one year of major football experience. Cam is ahead of the curve as far as I'm concerned but as others have said you have to build around him on the offense just like any other QB and when has the front office did that in the past two seasons?

 

So you think he is ahead of the curve.  All of the so called experts think he is behind and still has some major flaws.

 

Ok the heck with all of them what do they know right??  Forget they are paid to analyze film and that guys like Polian and Kirwin were GMs in the league.  If huddlers think he is ahead of the curve and all he needs is to relax then who am I to argue.

 

Oh but then I might be using some of that bad sarcasm again......

[IGSaint]

So you think he is ahead of the curve.  All of the so called experts think he is behind and still has some major flaws.

 

Ok the heck with all of them what do they know right??  Forget they are paid to analyze film and that guys like Polian and Kirwin were GMs in the league.  If huddlers think he is ahead of the curve and all he needs is to relax then who am I to argue.

 

Oh but then I might be using some of that bad sarcasm again......

 

Yes he is ahead of the curve of where he should be if he only has one year of college yet broke nfl qb records. Oh wow bill polian said he's not, stats says he is though. I like how you don't talk about the failure to build around cam though I guess you don't want to talk about things that goes against your arguments. I'm sure you are correct though plug in rodgers, brady or whoever behind that woeful o-line and receivers and I'm sure they would put up elite stats. They would complete all of their passes too right? And you can use your bad sarcasm as long as you know it's bad.

[panthers55]

Yes he is ahead of the curve of where he should be if he only has one year of college yet broke nfl qb records. Oh wow bill polian said he's not, stats says he is though. I like how you don't talk about the failure to build around cam though I guess you don't want to talk about things that goes against your arguments. I'm sure you are correct though plug in rodgers, brady or whoever behind that woeful o-line and receivers and I'm sure they would put up elite stats. They would complete all of their passes too right? And you can use your bad sarcasm as long as you know it's bad.

I don't talk about not building around Cam because I believe we have and continue to. Since 2010 we have drafted just as many offensive guys as we have defensive.  And most of our trades and free agents have gone to the offense not the defense. I think we have great running backs (or did until both Stewart and Barner are hurt) that our receivers are better than advertised and that with the exception of Bell, our line is not that bad. I think that Olsen, Smith and now Ginn are legitimate receivers. I think saying we haven helped him is just another excuse. 

 

Brady, Brees and Peyton have proven over and over that they make the receivers better than they are otherwise and can win with even crappy ones.  I wouldn't even put Cam in the same breath with those other guys right now.

[IGSaint]

I don't talk about not building around Cam because I believe we have and continue to. Since 2010 we have drafted just as many offensive guys as we have defensive.  And most of our trades and free agents have gone to the offense not the defense. I think we have great running backs (or did until both Stewart and Barner are hurt) that our receivers are better than advertised and that with the exception of Bell, our line is not that bad. I think that Olsen, Smith and now Ginn are legitimate receivers. I think saying we haven helped him is just another excuse. 

 

Brady, Brees and Peyton have proven over and over that they make the receivers better than they are otherwise and can win with even crappy ones.  I wouldn't even put Cam in the same breath with those other guys right now.

 

Most of the league is not in the same breath with brady, brees, and peyton. It's not a slight against cam to not be mentioned among them. I don't think he will ever be surgical like a brady. As others have said he has more in common with favre then he does brady and there is nothing wrong with that. You can win with that but you have to put the right coaching behind that and so far we haven't done that. Cam gave us the opportunity to win both with seattle and buffalo, it's up to the entire team to come out and take ownership of our wins not just cam. 

[PantherFan52]

Last year we saw what a great QB coach can do for a mediocre QB (Harbaugh and Alex Smith). A smart coach who can install confidence in Cam and teach him the things he is doing wrong could make him an MVP. 

[TheRed]

I don't talk about not building around Cam because I believe we have and continue to. Since 2010 we have drafted just as many offensive guys as we have defensive. And most of our trades and free agents have gone to the offense not the defense.

We've done a not so great job overall of building around him on the offensive side of the ball. Especially on the OL.

2011:

4th Round - Kealoha Pilares (Wide Receiver) - IR, and likely gone.

6th Round - Zach Williams (Center) - Gone.

7th Round - Lee Ziemba (Tackle) - Gone.

2012:

2nd Round - Amini Silatolu (Guard) - Starter.

4th Round - Joe Adams (Wide Receiver/Returner) - Gone.

2013:

4th Round - Edmund Kugbila (Guard) - IR, out for the year.

6th Round - Kenjon Barner (Running Back) Injured, return unknown.

One starter drafted on the offensive side of the ball since we drafted Cam. That is a damn shame.

We traded for Olsen which was a great move obviously and combined with signing Shockey, paid dividends in Cam's rookie year. Problem is in 2012 we let Shockey walk, and replaced him with Ben Hartsock (so basically nobody).

We picked up Ginn as a return man, and Hixon who was supposed to come in and be the #3 but couldn't even get on the field all training camp/preseason and still can barely do so now. Lafell is failing to stand out so far too.

If this continues then our #2 receiver production wise looks to likely be Greg Olsen again this year.

But hey, keep telling us fairy tales about how much we are building around our franchise QB though P55.

[Kurb]

P55 is gonna drag me in.....

[stirs]

The constant drumbeat of "he broke an NFL record" is ringing hollow in year 3.  Some said that The Golden Calf of Bristol won a playoff game too, but that juice ran out also.

 

Running QB's in college, winners that they might be, will sometimes have trouble transitioning their game to the pros.  Cam had little passing opportunities or attempts in college, so it was with a great deal of faith that we drafted him.  He was a winner, that was his main attribute.  So was Flutie and The Golden Calf of Bristol.  GM's took a leap of faith with them also.

 

Of course drafting him number 1, was more faith than some would have invested, but the first two years looked like we would or could be okay.  Now that defenses have started to take away the things he does well, they have left him with throws that he consistently misses.

 

Besides all the mechanics, he needs to learn to throw the ball away. 2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 19 because of him holding the ball and taking a sack.  He has a strong enough arm to throw it away for sure.  All QB;s learn to deal with a collapsing pocket.  You see most of them get rid of it before the D is too close to stop them from stepping up.

 

We all said all summer, that this had to be the year that defined Cam.  Maybe it will turn around.  The NFL analysts are talking about him not making the right reads.  GMan said the same thing before last weeks game.  Cam has to make the right reads.  So, no matter what the collective brain trust of the Huddle thinks, former GM's and the current Panthers GM thinks that he has room to improve