Should Ron Rivera be standing up for Cam?

[panthers55]

Doesn't matter. 

 

I know a lot of "Sports Psychologist" who do diddly for their players in comparison to a "regular, laymen coach" who has no training in the psychology/motivational department, regardless (though in respect) to Panther 55's  profession. 

 

Plus, I was more detailing the whole notion of putting Newton first, that Ace Boogie was promoting, and how Rivera Did /Has missed the boat on that. Panther 55 was already insulting me, with out qualifying asking what I meant (though it should have been obvious to him/her, based off what we were discussing), regarding the management of Newton by Rivera. 

I am not insulting you simply questioning your standing and knowledge to be able to criticize Rivera without knowing what is being said between them or their relationship.  I don't agree that what is said in public is more important than what is said in private.  I don't agree that Rivera hasn't put Newton first. From before he was drafted until the present Rivera has done nothing but sing Newton's praises in public and in private. He has never publicly put him down or criticized him except to say he was a mopey head last year after players , the media and even Cam admitted he got down on himself too much.  I think that saying because this coach does it this way and his quarterback is successful therefore Rivera should do the same or the quarterback's struggles must be the coach's fault is fallacious logic. I didn't miss the boat I just don't think that the argument put forth by you and Ace has any merit.  And that is my personal opinion nothing more.

[FootballMaestro]

Yeah Rivera doesn't back Cam although you can't find a single statement he has ever made which is negative or critical.  Even when Cam  may be as fault which appears to be the case when he failed to follow the gameplan and throw balls deep, Rivera says we struggled instead of pointing out a player.

And you are in every meeting and private conversation in the locker room so you know what is said behind closed doors. You know he doesn't support him because he doesn't do silly dumb things in public, right?

And you surely know what a head coach should do or say because you have been a head coach in college or the pros, right??

 

Some coaches say things in public others do their talking in private.  To assume that what you hear in soundbites and interviews is the sum total or even a big part of what happens between the two of them is ridiculous.  Instead of looking at the elephant in the room which is Cam has had a lot of growing up and maturing to do because he had not faced losing before,  lets blame Rivera for Cam's struggles at times because we know it has to be someone else besides Cam.

 

You sound like your shouting. Calm down for a moment. 

 

Nonetheless, I'm still bemused by your post and current ranting. 

 

So you're trying to say Rivera has handled Newton well with all the various criticism he's received? That's the point. Not Rivera's intentions. Lol.  Come on now. 

 

That's what we're talking about here. I don't care what he says behind the scenes, cause that's not what Ace Boogie was detailing. He was specifically discussing the deluge of Newton criticism with the accompanying silent response from Rivera, coupled with how he handles Newton (both on and off the field) for PR purposes. And the truth is, Rivera is clueless on both fronts (as he is in so many other areas outside of overseeing the defense). That's true and indisputable. It's just another management, responsibility issue for him (Rivera). 

 

The other stuff you brought up is unnecessary.  No one ever said Rivera doesn't like Newton, or speak up for Newton behind the scenes. Not at all. But Rivera has handled Newton publicly in the wrong way. You can certainly say he could have done it differently.  I do agree with that. 

 

It's not about what Rivera says to Newton to cheer him up by the locker. That's wasn't Ace Boogies point/focus. It's how you go after his critics and/or accept responsibility for his own mistakes, that eventually affect Newton. And it's in this area that Rivera has been ominously lax or slow in. 

 

And yes, he did [finally] take some responsibility this year, in his own way (for the flailing offense, first half last year, that he agree to, and stayed silent went Cam was criticized for it). 

[FootballMaestro]

I am not insulting you simply questioning your standing and knowledge to be able to criticize Rivera without knowing what is being said between them or their relationship.  I don't agree that what is said in public is more important than what is said in private.  I don't agree that Rivera hasn't put Newton first. From before he was drafted until the present Rivera has done nothing but sing Newton's praises in public and in private. He has never publicly put him down or criticized him except to say he was a mopey head last year after players , the media and even Cam admitted he got down on himself too much.  I think that saying because this coach does it this way and his quarterback is successful therefore Rivera should do the same or the quarterback's struggles must be the coach's fault is fallacious logic. I didn't miss the boat I just don't think that the argument put forth by you and Ace has any merit.  And that is my personal opinion nothing more.

 

Once again, it's a Non Sequitur. And you're trying to foment your own argument. 

 

I never said he didn't like or respect Newton, or support him in private. That's another argument.

 

Rivera's been tepid, average at best in the managing Cam arena from my viewpoint That's how I see it. Stay focused. 

 

The argument that was presented was, 'when you have a young Franchise type QB, should they head coach be much more vigilant (on and off the field) in promoting, supporting and defending his QB (as Harbaugh for example did for both Alex Smith and Kaepernick)'. And I say yes. Especially with the type of criticism Newton has received many times. It appeared to me, Rivera just (literally) hid in the bushes, and didn't know what to do (either in a quiet way/response, or something on the field helping Newton). Whereas another coach, would step out front and take the blows, openly defend their QB,  and/or dismiss the allegations and perception for all the world to see (mind you, this doesn't include helping them on the field as well). You should know this as a (I'm guessing) psychologist, therapist, psychoanalyst, psychiatrist, etc. It's just another view point. More importantly, this has been Rivera's personality in General, not to take things head on, and miss stuff. So are you realized surprised it doesn't manifest itself in other areas. You should know this to? He's even admitted this, and is trying to get better at it he says (delegating, managing, recognizing). So why would he be any different in Managing Newton, somethings that not even technically in his job description.  Of course, it doesn't help that many times he comes across as a "clueless" defensive minded stoic Nerd Coach. 

 

You don't have to agree with the premise. But I for one do. It's simple as that. 

 

I can give many examples (of what AceBoogie meant). But why bother, cause it would just be re-hashing the last two years all over again in another internecine Huddle Huff-Mess

 

Bottom Line: Rivera is not a Strategic, instinctive Leader (notice, I didn't say vocal) in many peoples eyes. 

[panthers55]

You sound like your shouting. Calm down for a moment. 

 

Nonetheless, I'm still bemused by your post and current ranting. 

 

So you're trying to say Rivera has handled Newton well with all the various criticism he's received? That's the point. Not Rivera's intentions. Lol.  Come on now. 

 

That's what we're talking about here. I don't care what he says behind the scenes, cause that's not what Ace Boogie was detailing. He was specifically discussing the deluge of Newton criticism with the accompanying silent response from Rivera, coupled with how he handles Newton (both on and off the field) for PR purposes. And the truth is, Rivera is clueless on both fronts (as he is in so many other areas outside of overseeing the defense). That's true and indisputable. It's just another management, responsibility issue for him (Rivera). 

 

The other stuff you brought up is unnecessary.  No one ever said Rivera doesn't like Newton, or speak up for Newton behind the scenes. Not at all. But Rivera has handled Newton publicly in the wrong way. You can certainly say he could have done it differently.  I do agree with that. 

 

It's not about what Rivera says to Newton to cheer him up by the locker. That's wasn't Ace Boogies point/focus. It's how you go after his critics and/or accept responsibility for his own mistakes, that eventually affect Newton. And it's in this area that Rivera has been ominously lax or slow in. 

 

And yes, he did [finally] take some responsibility this year, in his own way (for the flailing offense, first half last year, that he agree to, and stayed silent went Cam was criticized for it). 

There is no shouting or ranting here.  Your initial characterization of my response is simply your ineffective attempt to picture me as a hysteric or some unreasonable poster.  I can assure you that I remain calm and in control in most all situations.

 

And yes I do think Rivera has handled the criticism newton has received well. When someone criticizes you and tries to put you on the defensive, often the best approach is not to be defensive or make up excuses which simply gives credence to the criticism.  Often the best approach is to ignore it.  When you do respond it is often best not to be defensive but simply state the positives and support your player instead of going to the extreme. To say that you need to vocally go after Newton's critics is one approach but it is surely not the only way or in my opinion the best way to do it.

As for what I have brought up, it has all been germaine and appropriate.  Rivera has always been supportive and there are no reasons to believe he hasn't.  I understand you don't agree he handled it correctly but that is your opinion which you are entitled to.  To assume that Newton has been negatively affected by this criticism may be the exact opposite of what is happening.  The criticism is just as likely informing Newton about how his actions and behaviors are affecting his public persona. As the leader on the team he is learning that he needs to manage his public self as well as his personal self.  The criticism has been ongoing and intense since he was at Florida and will likely continue given that Newton is a polarizing figure for whatever reason.

 

One of the first lessons you learn as a professional football player is to ignore the media criticisms and develop a tough skin.  You are taught to not respond to criticism as it only increases the backlash and typically makes things worse.  You are told that what is important is your relationship with the other players and how people feel about you in the locker room not the media. Most players will tell you they don't listen to ESPN or sport shows.  So if Newton is being negatively affected by media criticism then that is another lesson he needs to learn.  Stop paying attention to it.  Truth is that fans like you care way more about the media and criticisms then player do or at least should care.

[panthers55]

Once again, it's a Non Sequitur. And you're trying to foment your own argument. 

 

I never said he didn't like or respect Newton, or support him in private. That's another argument.

 

Rivera's been tepid, average at best in the managing Cam arena from my viewpoint That's how I see it. Stay focused. 

 

The argument that was presented was, 'when you have a young Franchise type QB, should they head coach be much more vigilant (on and off the field) in promoting, supporting and defending his QB (as Harbaugh for example did for both Alex Smith and Kaepernick)'. And I say yes. Especially with the type of criticism Newton has received many times. It appeared to me, Rivera just (literally) hid in the bushes, and didn't know what to do (either in a quiet way/response, or something on the field helping Newton). Whereas another coach, would step out front and take the blows, openly defend their QB,  and/or dismiss the allegations and perception for all the world to see (mind you, this doesn't include helping them on the field as well). You should know this as a (I'm guessing) psychologist, therapist, psychoanalyst, psychiatrist, etc. It's just another view point. More importantly, this has been Rivera's personality in General, not to take things head on, and miss stuff. So are you realized surprised it doesn't manifest itself in other areas. You should know this to? He's even admitted this, and is trying to get better at it he says (delegating, managing, recognizing). So why would he be any different in Managing Newton, somethings that not even technically in his job description.  Of course, it doesn't help that many times he comes across as a "clueless" defensive minded stoic Nerd Coach. 

 

You don't have to agree with the premise. But I for one do. It's simple as that. 

 

I can give many examples (of what AceBoogie meant). But why bother, cause it would just be re-hashing the last two years all over again in another internecine Huddle Huff-Mess

 

Bottom Line: Rivera is not a Strategic, instinctive Leader (notice, I didn't say vocal) in many peoples eyes. 

And again I don;t agree that Rivera should be an agent type of guy promoting Newton in the media or attacking everyone who has ever criticized Cam.  I understand that this is your opinion or what you think should be done but it is far from the only approach or how most people handle criticism in the NFL.  NFL players are not normal people like you and I but more like politicians or actors or other famous people.  Ask most any of them how they should handle criticism and they will tell you to ignore it and not given them a bigger forum than they already have. The only time most famous people come out and defend themselves or others is when the information is slanderous or other damaging to their ability to make a living like politicians.

Tell me how the criticism of newton is not rooted in at least some small shred of reality. Sure it is overblown and often inaccurate but it is surely not slanderous or outright lies for the most part.  And it should fuel his fire to prove them wrong more so than make him question his own ability.  Rivera has done everything he can to support cam including changing the rules about how they chose captains so Newton would be chosen.

 

Sure you can go on and on saying how Rivera is wrong and has done the wrong thing but don't assume that everyone agrees or thinks it is obvious to the rest of us.  If I were the coach I would tell Newton to prove his ability on the field not defend it in the media.  I would tell him to look at how Smitty uses criticism to fuel his fire and drive him to perform.  I would tell him to ignore ESPN and the media and concentrate on his team and his relationship with the other players.

 

Bottom line is that this is your problem because Rivera doesn't defend Cam like you would like him to do.  But it surely isn't a given he is ineffective or poor leader when it comes to supporting his players or team.

[teeray]

Even if I were to accept the premise that Rivera is not defending Cam enough (which I don't)

If Cam truly is fueled by the criticism why try to cut off that fuel supply?

Cam for all things is surely confident in his abilities. In some ways I think the criticism is good because it fuels desire and gives him humility and determination.

For example Michael Jordan was a guy that would just manufacture slights against him to fuel his insatiable competitive appetite. It gave him an edge

Rivera doesn't need to run out and defend Cam of every criticism against him. He needs Cam to come out every day with a burning desire to prove his critics wrong on the field.